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Post by laescoobyfan on Aug 9, 2012 0:58:42 GMT -5
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Post by j3h on Aug 9, 2012 1:10:07 GMT -5
Each show or film can have it's own continuity and does not need to carry on from one project to the next. Having multiple versions of history or character development in a long running franchise allows for growth, creativity, and freshness for each of its interpretations.
For example: Everything that happened in a Pup named Scooby Doo does not have to line up with what the creators choose as "fact" in Mystery Inc.
And It's nice that Mystery Inc makes nods towards past versions of Scooby's shows, but it doesn't have to be faithful to them.
Therefor the question of "what is true" is subjective to what is needed to be relevant.
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Post by laescoobyfan on Aug 9, 2012 3:05:24 GMT -5
I believe the official appearances are true, unless there are major contradicitions that suggest otherwise. I don't think each show or movie is separate from the rest of the franchise. I believe that the characters have been through experiences, and that those experiences stay with them no matter what series, movie, or special. The voices and personalities of the characters may change, but Velma is the same person in the Scooby Doo Show, as she was in What's New SD.
For example: In A Pup Named SD, Daphne was skeptical. She would always say that there was no such things as ghosts. In SD on Zombie Island however, Velma and Fred were trying to predict a possible explaination for the hauntings on the Island. Fred says it's just guys in masks, and they're probably after the pirate's treasure. Velma: or covering up a smuggling operation. Fred: or maybe there's oil under the island. Daphne: "Really guys, for once, can't accept that maybe there are some mysteries that have no rational explaination?".
My explaination for this change is that Daphne was a kid in A Pup Named SD and an adult in Zombie Island. She has been through many experiences in between those two periods. Her views have changed, just like someone's views and opinions can change in the real world. She was in the 13 Ghosts of SD in between A Pup and Zombie Island. That series had real ghost, which could have been something that changed her views.
I think of the gang as real people who live in a different world.
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Post by russm on Aug 9, 2012 18:26:42 GMT -5
I don’t think of the shows as part of a continuous cannon rather as a set ‘parallel universes’ with various levels of coupling between them. In SD:MI there is a clear back-story and an overarching story arc to which each episode has to fit in with actions in one episode affecting what happens in another. It also does something else, in episode 1 of series 1 it stakes a claim to follow on from SDWAY and others of that era (e.g. those shows/series with Scrappy and Film-Flam (or whatever he’s called) but not WNSD I think) by the exhibits in the museum Velma is showing people round.
In WNSD you had a degree of internal consistency (remembering you had met characters in a previous episode) but aside from that each was pretty much stand-alone. From what I’ve seen of 13 Ghosts aside from collecting the ghosts I got the impression that there was very little connection between each episode, I could be wrong as I’ve not watched many. Going back further in time SDWAY and the like all the episodes appear as stand-alone.
I would never attempt to shoehorn every episode/series/move into some form of chronological order unless it is specified by hooks in the actual show itself. You could define something based on that but I’ve seen too many arguments over at FanFiction with people insisting that their favourite show is the most canonical of all and rejecting others purely on personal opinion. Cannon in the TV/Movie series was defined first by Hanna-Barbara and now by Warner Bros, in the world of FanFiction you are free to follow those or pick the bits that most suit what you want to write.
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Post by laescoobyfan on Aug 9, 2012 19:05:04 GMT -5
Who voted for "The Mystery Begins and Curse of the Lake Monster" and why? I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just wondering.
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Post by Doo on Aug 9, 2012 19:52:43 GMT -5
I don't know.
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Post by j3h on Aug 10, 2012 12:16:46 GMT -5
I don’t think of the shows as part of a continuous cannon rather as a set ‘parallel universes’ with various levels of coupling between them. In SD:MI there is a clear back-story and an overarching story arc to which each episode has to fit in with actions in one episode affecting what happens in another. It also does something else, in episode 1 of series 1 it stakes a claim to follow on from SDWAY and others of that era (e.g. those shows/series with Scrappy and Film-Flam (or whatever he’s called) but not WNSD I think) by the exhibits in the museum Velma is showing people round. In WNSD you had a degree of internal consistency (remembering you had met characters in a previous episode) but aside from that each was pretty much stand-alone. From what I’ve seen of 13 Ghosts aside from collecting the ghosts I got the impression that there was very little connection between each episode, I could be wrong as I’ve not watched many. Going back further in time SDWAY and the like all the episodes appear as stand-alone. I would never attempt to shoehorn every episode/series/move into some form of chronological order unless it is specified by hooks in the actual show itself. You could define something based on that but I’ve seen too many arguments over at FanFiction with people insisting that their favourite show is the most canonical of all and rejecting others purely on personal opinion. Cannon in the TV/Movie series was defined first by Hanna-Barbara and now by Warner Bros, in the world of FanFiction you are free to follow those or pick the bits that most suit what you want to write. Mystery SOLVED and case CLOSED as far as Mystery Incorporated goes! Via Twitter, I spoke with the show's producer Tony Cervone about this very topic of continuity between shows: Me: @j_3_h 09 Aug "@kooltoecee : does the show's creative team view Mystery Inc as it's own "reboot universe" or that it's in strict continuity with prior shows?" Tony Cervone: @kooltoecee @j_3_h : its a reboot universeSo there you have it straight from the top, Scooby-Doo Mystery Incorporated is completely separate from all past shows and is not part of their continuity. Thanks Tony Cervone for clearing that up
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Post by laescoobyfan on Aug 10, 2012 14:52:56 GMT -5
Mystery SOLVED and case CLOSED as far as Mystery Incorporated goes! Via Twitter, I spoke with the show's producer Tony Cervone about this very topic of continuity between shows: Me: @j_3_h 09 Aug "@kooltoecee : does the show's creative team view Mystery Inc as it's own "reboot universe" or that it's in strict continuity with prior shows?" Tony Cervone: @kooltoecee @j_3_h : its a reboot universeSo there you have it straight from the top, Scooby-Doo Mystery Incorporated is completely separate from all past shows and is not part of their continuity. Thanks Tony Cervone for clearing that up I hope you realize you're still not going to change my views. I'm sorry but that doesn't really prove anything. I'm reposting part of this from a different thread, since you seemed to have shifted the conversation over here: I don't think that this series exists alone. It is suppose to be a continuation of Where Are You. There are many costumes of monsters from the gang's past in the Crystal Cove Museum. There was a statue of Flim Flam from the 13 Ghosts in that museum. Also, in "The Creeping Creatures" Fred shows Daphne a book with traps in it from the "Where Are You" series. And Fred's parents were the only ones who were not in A Pup Named SD. I don't think that is just a coincidence. The flashback of the Creeper being unmasked also connects the two. Just because there were no cell phones shown in older shows like Where Are You, doesn't mean the gang didn't have any or they didn't exist. I don't really care what anybody behind the scenes has said. I look at what happens, and what has been revealed within the shows and movies. For example, in A Pup Named SD, it was said behind the scenes that the characters were around 12 years old. This however, was never revealed in any of the episodes, so, really their age can be up for interpretation to the viewers. I happen to suspect the characters are a few years younger than that, maybe about 9 or 10. I think that something can be different, SDMI and these latest movies (Abracadabra Doo, etc.), for example, and can still be on the same track as both happening to the characters, and being on the same continuity. The gang is younger in SDMI, it was a different time in their life, people change, they have matured as they have gotten older. Now to more of a responce to your post above: You're never going to be able to prove anything when it comes to continuity with SDMI and other shows. I think something can be both a reboot (fresh and new), and also be a continuation of past shows. So, I don't think "reboot" is the best word to replace "separate" with. And of course SDMI is not "strict continuity". You can tell that by watching the show. It is not like "Where Are You" or "The Scooby-Doo Show". It is very different. It has it's own feel/vibe/atmosphere, just like any other series does. But I don't think SDMI being that different separates it from the rest of franchise. I think that most people view each series as just one part of the franchise. And that each one has it's own feel/vibe/atmosphere, but that doesn't mean the things that were in other shows never happened or are in a completely separate world. Really, it is up to the viewer whether they want to believe SDMI is separte from the rest of the franchise and is in a completely separate world or not. It's not something that you can prove.
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Post by j3h on Aug 10, 2012 15:17:06 GMT -5
Lae, In that other thread I though you and I agreed to disagree on this. That's why I posted in reply to another member who was also discussing the intricate aspects of continuity. In my opinion, if the head producer of show says its not in continuity (which he has also said before the show debuted at a panel at SDCC) then TO ME it is not in continuity with the other shows. Other posters here may or may not feel the same way, but it is best for them to know what has been said by the show's creators and how it effects how they craft their tales. They have also used the term "Alternate Universe" along with "reboot" to express their creative choice of not directly connecting Mystery Inc to the prior shows if you want to be clear about vocabulary. I apologize if you feel I was singling you out or attacking, but that is not the intent. Peace?
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Post by laescoobyfan on Aug 10, 2012 16:09:58 GMT -5
Yes, I agree to disagree. No, I didn't think you were singling me out or attacking, I just felt the need to restate my views and say a bit more.
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Post by j3h on Aug 10, 2012 16:18:23 GMT -5
No harm no foul.
Speaking generally; I guess I've been reading comic books for so long that it's very easy for me to accept concepts such as "alternate universes"' "parallel worlds" and "infinite Earths" with ease, though DC's recent "New 52" semi soft reboot has me with mixed opinions. There are plenty of times when I do enjoy long established and stretching continuity, but I see why creative forces feel the need to ditch it as well.
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Post by laescoobyfan on Aug 10, 2012 19:33:57 GMT -5
Oh.
I do want to say, I can see how someone would consider the SD on TV to be in one world, and the SD books and comic books to be in separate worlds. I've never really even considered the possiblity that something can be in a separate world until now. I've just always considered the SD on TV to be true Scooby-Doo, and everything on TV to be in the same continuity, unless there are major, obvious contradictions to suggest otherwise. Then when major contradictions occur (The Mystery Begins and Curse of the Lake Monster), I will just refuse to accept them into the SD franchise as being true. I am still doing that when it comes to those movies. There are so many contradictions with them, they just don't exist to me as being true. But now, instead of just rejecting the SD books and comic books into the SD franchise, I am going to consider them to be in a separate world from the SD that has been shown on TV. I will not split the different series or movies that were on TV into separate worlds though. Small contradictions, inconsistencies, characters' voice and personality changes are all going to occur, but that's not enough for me to shift things over to a seperate world on a different continuity. When it comes to contradictions, usually they are small and I can explain them (like I did with Daphne on reply #17 of this thread).
Wow, that paragraph ended up being longer than I thought it would be.
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Post by j3h on Aug 11, 2012 14:26:21 GMT -5
Wow, that paragraph ended up being longer than I thought it would be. I have a tendency to be long winded in quite a few of my own posts on here.
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Post by j3h on Aug 12, 2012 16:12:06 GMT -5
Lae, this isn't going to make you happy since we all know where you stand on the topic of continuity (so please feel free to ignore this post)... Just the other day Tony Cervone, Supervising Producer of Mystery Inc, again had a very similar debate on Twitter with another fan about continuity from past shows relating to Mystery Incorporated. I find it interesting how often the continuity topic creeps up and mean no disrespect to the varied opinions of the members here.
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Post by russm on Aug 12, 2012 16:19:46 GMT -5
The bitter truth is that Great Danes have a life expectancy of around 10-12 years so from the live action movies it makes sense that they didn't get Scooby till they were teenagers. However, the life expectancy of a talking Great Dane in a cartoon is reported to be considerably longer.
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