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Post by imnotmark on Feb 28, 2021 18:24:56 GMT -5
I understand all of the various reactions to this announcement and I myself am not totally sold either.
But I'm definitely interested. At this point, 50+ plus years in I just want to see them continue to try stuff honestly.
I think we will always have a base Scooby-Doo happening weather its the DTV movies or a more traditional series like Guess Who. As long as that's happening I'm willing to try these different interpretations.
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Post by Ark on Feb 28, 2021 22:21:09 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong, I'm curious... the same way one watches an amateur skater go for a new trick attempt. Will they pull it off?
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Post by ShaphneLegacy27 on Mar 1, 2021 16:05:41 GMT -5
Well perhaps they felt they could tell a more interesting story from her persepctive than another character? But is it not a good thing for the franchise? WB mostly just seems to care about the main five. This franchise has dozens of side characters to work with. Plus they already did the Velma/Daphne live action movie.
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Post by Dyland on Mar 1, 2021 20:26:19 GMT -5
WB mostly just seems to care about the main five. This franchise has dozens of side characters to work with. Plus they already did the Velma/Daphne live action movie. I think we're all just holding our breath for that inevitable Scooby-Dumb vs Flim Flam dark and gritty spin-off.
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Post by russm on Mar 2, 2021 8:13:42 GMT -5
Well perhaps they felt they could tell a more interesting story from her persepctive than another character? But is it not a good thing for the franchise? WB mostly just seems to care about the main five. This franchise has dozens of side characters to work with. Plus they already did the Velma/Daphne live action movie. And it is the main characters that sell, they have the name and brand recognition in the here and now. And that is what will sell.
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Post by vakanai on Mar 11, 2021 7:56:48 GMT -5
WB mostly just seems to care about the main five. This franchise has dozens of side characters to work with. Plus they already did the Velma/Daphne live action movie. I think we're all just holding our breath for that inevitable Scooby-Dumb vs Flim Flam dark and gritty spin-off. I'm calling it now - Vincent Van Ghoul is the 11th hour villain!
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Post by mattpricetime on Mar 11, 2021 13:25:07 GMT -5
I think the major take away here beyond the show itself is that WB Animation finally has more freedom without the Turner management. Just like without DC Universe, CN/Boom would have never greenlit Harley Quinn or Young Justice Season 3, without this change they would never have greenlighted this or the Preschool branded shows.
Whether we like the ideas themselves, this is freedom these franchises haven't had for a long time.
Though everybody ought to be expecting the next generation slate of legacy shows to be coming any time now, but WB has been doing pretty swell at keeping a lot of things under the radar until they announced it for HBO Max. I expect there's more in the work we just haven't heard of yet.
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Post by Dyland on Mar 11, 2021 14:20:28 GMT -5
I think the major take away here beyond the show itself is that WB Animation finally has more freedom without the Turner management. Just like without DC Universe, CN/Boom would have never greenlit Harley Quinn or Young Justice Season 3, without this change they would never have greenlighted this or the Preschool branded shows. Whether we like the ideas themselves, this is freedom these franchises haven't had for a long time. I think it's a double edged sword. True, there's a lot of positives with artists & writers & showrunners getting more creative freedom, but at the same time, the lack of creative limitations can also be stilting too. Like how virtually none of Bruce Timm's works (outside of Batman: TAS and the Arkham games) have been anywhere near as successful. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_limitationName a classic, still relevant movie or franchise (like the Star Wars OT, or even Hanna-Barbara shows like Scooby!) and a lot of the success is likely because of how they had to be more creative to work around budget/animation/etc. limitations. Robert Rodriguez is the king of this in his films. (Having cast & crew pull double duty, and reusing as much as possible to keep budget low) Part of what made Scooby-Doo popular in the first place wasn't the stilted animation. It was the characters, the mysteries, and the eerie atmosphere. A lot of that has been shed over the years for attempts at "updated relevancy," almost always unsuccessfully. There are exceptions, of course, but this is often true - at least from what I've seen.
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Post by mattpricetime on Mar 11, 2021 16:05:58 GMT -5
I'm personally drawing a line on this subject in two areas. As far as the history of the business the Warner Animation properties had been kept in blocks that really have never let them to into directions that Turner/CN enforced on them. The entire reason so many DTV movies of Scooby and DC properties exist was to get around this. Half of the reason for DC Universe's existence was also to get around this. We've never really seen what a full on all cylinders plan without those limitations look like. This is the first chance since 2001 it has ever been possible again. I'm curious to see where this could be taken.
Now on a personal level, I adore the Hanna Barbera library as it's one of my favorite bodies of work. I tend to think the post 1996 work has been a lot of fun, I don't think it's ever fully recaptured some of their magic that the studio even had in the 80s where you had a mix of new visions but also enough editorial to make the characters never fully feel not themselves. Scooby, Fred Flintstone, Yogi bear existed through decades going through changes but still felt the same. I'm not sure i've still felt that way all the time since. Some of that is a result of the culture shift from the studio and some of it you could argue is shift in how the current people working on the show regard the legacy they are adding on to. You need only look at the most recent series to see how different many of these teams working at the same studio regard their sources. The WB Animation of today is very fast and loose in this regard presently. Will that last? Who knows.
Of course at the end maybe a lot of us would be a tad crabby of any direction to properties we love that isn't our own if we had the keys. Which i admit I've not totally loved all scooby media produced recently but i've yet to be totally alienated.
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Post by Ark on Mar 11, 2021 20:31:49 GMT -5
I agree with the limitations to some degree, but at the same time, anime is famous for going overboard with everything and somehow still making it all work, sort of like how there's so many characters and subplots in Boo Brothers, but it still comes together nicely. There's something to be said about not changing characters too much from their original forms though. I'm finishing Mystery Incorporated, so don't give anything away, but so far, Hot Dog Water seems like a perfect example of a character who naturally fits into the Scooby universe, is a well-developed character, and allowed the writers to represent a small dose of alternative sexuality without it feeling shoe-horned or intrusive. It's apparent that there's some bi-curiosity, but it's not so blatant and showy that it takes away from the story or feels like it was just meeting a quota to me.
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Post by Ark on Mar 11, 2021 20:43:05 GMT -5
In fact, Mystery Incorporated was very clever about how they approached sensitive issues. The conquistadors were written to have been taken over by greed, but were still included in a semi-historically accurate way, and not just canceled. Krampus was pictured with his traditional weapon in the textbook, but Shaggy just jokes about it and it's omitted from actual use, for the show to be more kid-friendly. I believe it is smart to include sensitive issues in this manner, since at the end of the day, this is a show mainly targeted for families and children.
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Post by scoobyfan27 on Mar 11, 2021 23:00:44 GMT -5
I'm personally drawing a line on this subject in two areas. As far as the history of the business the Warner Animation properties had been kept in blocks that really have never let them to into directions that Turner/CN enforced on them. The entire reason so many DTV movies of Scooby and DC properties exist was to get around this. Half of the reason for DC Universe's existence was also to get around this. We've never really seen what a full on all cylinders plan without those limitations look like. This is the first chance since 2001 it has ever been possible again. I'm curious to see where this could be taken. Now on a personal level, I adore the Hanna Barbera library as it's one of my favorite bodies of work. I tend to think the post 1996 work has been a lot of fun, I don't think it's ever fully recaptured some of their magic that the studio even had in the 80s where you had a mix of new visions but also enough editorial to make the characters never fully feel not themselves. Scooby, Fred Flintstone, Yogi bear existed through decades going through changes but still felt the same. I'm not sure i've still felt that way all the time since. Some of that is a result of the culture shift from the studio and some of it you could argue is shift in how the current people working on the show regard the legacy they are adding on to. You need only look at the most recent series to see how different many of these teams working at the same studio regard their sources. The WB Animation of today is very fast and loose in this regard presently. Will that last? Who knows. Of course at the end maybe a lot of us would be a tad crabby of any direction to properties we love that isn't our own if we had the keys. Which i admit I've not totally loved all scooby media produced recently but i've yet to be totally alienated. Sorry if this sounds like a silly question but all these changes kind of confuse me lol. So are you saying that WB is now independent rather than being controlled by CN/Turner? And in your opinion what changes do you see happening with Scooby and when do you think they’ll take effect? Also do you work in the industry or have ties to them? Sorry for all the questions I’m not sure how all this works 😅
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Post by mattpricetime on Mar 12, 2021 9:59:47 GMT -5
I'm personally drawing a line on this subject in two areas. As far as the history of the business the Warner Animation properties had been kept in blocks that really have never let them to into directions that Turner/CN enforced on them. The entire reason so many DTV movies of Scooby and DC properties exist was to get around this. Half of the reason for DC Universe's existence was also to get around this. We've never really seen what a full on all cylinders plan without those limitations look like. This is the first chance since 2001 it has ever been possible again. I'm curious to see where this could be taken. Now on a personal level, I adore the Hanna Barbera library as it's one of my favorite bodies of work. I tend to think the post 1996 work has been a lot of fun, I don't think it's ever fully recaptured some of their magic that the studio even had in the 80s where you had a mix of new visions but also enough editorial to make the characters never fully feel not themselves. Scooby, Fred Flintstone, Yogi bear existed through decades going through changes but still felt the same. I'm not sure i've still felt that way all the time since. Some of that is a result of the culture shift from the studio and some of it you could argue is shift in how the current people working on the show regard the legacy they are adding on to. You need only look at the most recent series to see how different many of these teams working at the same studio regard their sources. The WB Animation of today is very fast and loose in this regard presently. Will that last? Who knows. Of course at the end maybe a lot of us would be a tad crabby of any direction to properties we love that isn't our own if we had the keys. Which i admit I've not totally loved all scooby media produced recently but i've yet to be totally alienated. Sorry if this sounds like a silly question but all these changes kind of confuse me lol. So are you saying that WB is now independent rather than being controlled by CN/Turner? And in your opinion what changes do you see happening with Scooby and when do you think they’ll take effect? Also do you work in the industry or have ties to them? Sorry for all the questions I’m not sure how all this works 😅
In my life outside Scooby Addicts, i do run an artist trope, so I follow a lot of the behind the scenes politics at various art industries for my own interest and seeing what we can learn from it. I provide reporting and info on this stuff here because since I basically do it already, it's not really extra work for me to share it with my fellow Scooby addicts.
I'm not affiliated directly with Warner Bros, though we do know some of them do lurk around here. My invitation to Warner's A-list survey program, found me. Not the other way around lol. I have interacted a lot with the Warner Archive team over the years though.
On the actual history of the studios/network this is something that is pretty well understood in the business side but is woefully under talked about in some of the fandoms. And it is needed to understand how we got here.
In 1996 when Turner merged with Warner Bros both had animation studios and they wanted to merge them together into one entity. This didn't go as planned for a lot of different people who didn't agree were attempted to be put under the same roof. In 2001 when Jaime Kellner was made head of Turner, the divide as we knew it was formed. Where Warner Bros Animation had the rights to the Looney Tunes, Hanna Barbera and MGM characters under WB management and Cartoon Network Studios with their original characters under Turner management. When we had Kids WB this wasn't a big an issue. (Remember shows like What's New Scooby Doo, Get a Clue and Tom and Jerry Tales went to KidsWb first)
Ever since there was no more Kids WB, Turner/CN was basically calling the shots as to what shows WB Animation could get greenlit and easily pulling the rug out from under them if they disliked them. (This doesn't mean WB hasn't had it's own problems over the years but a lot of WB show cancellations and screwovers were CN's management) There was no other place legally they could take them. The huge amount of direct to video Scooby and DC movies were made because they didn't have to deal with Turner on them. DC Universe and the Boomerang streaming services were also made to help get further away from it. But now that management is all but gone. The head scheduler of CN I believe is the only serious executive of the post 2001 Turner culture left.
Personally I predict they will probably be more willing to launch new series of older characters in the future. I'm not sure exactly how the balance between Cartoon Network and HBO Max will play out in full but the pandemic happening really caused them to alter a lot of their plans. The fact the main Cartoon Network schedule hasn't showed signs of change yet both Adult Swim and Boomerang have is one example though that the culture shift isn't finished yet.
When it is finished I expect the days of Scooby series being shafted in scheduling will end. As far as what they will do with that old management gone, I can't say. But I do see this series and the various pre-school properties they announced as clear examples of things Turner's old management didn't want, but now they can try them. I think there's gonna be a slate of new reboots of HB properties but we seem to still be stalling for time before they start talking about them. And leaks aren't very free flowing right now.
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Post by scoobyfan27 on Mar 12, 2021 13:14:40 GMT -5
Sorry if this sounds like a silly question but all these changes kind of confuse me lol. So are you saying that WB is now independent rather than being controlled by CN/Turner? And in your opinion what changes do you see happening with Scooby and when do you think they’ll take effect? Also do you work in the industry or have ties to them? Sorry for all the questions I’m not sure how all this works 😅 In my life outside Scooby Addicts, i do run an artist trope, so I follow a lot of the behind the scenes politics at various art industries for my own interest and seeing what we can learn from it. I provide reporting and info on this stuff here because since I basically do it already, it's not really extra work for me to share it with my fellow Scooby addicts. I'm not affiliated directly with Warner Bros, though we do know some of them do lurk around here. My invitation to Warner's A-list survey program, found me. Not the other way around lol. I have interacted a lot with the Warner Archive team over the years though. On the actual history of the studios/network this is something that is pretty well understood in the business side but is woefully under talked about in some of the fandoms. And it is needed to understand how we got here. In 1996 when Turner merged with Warner Bros both had animation studios and they wanted to merge them together into one entity. This didn't go as planned for a lot of different people who didn't agree were attempted to be put under the same roof. In 2001 when Jaime Kellner was made head of Turner, the divide as we knew it was formed. Where Warner Bros Animation had the rights to the Looney Tunes, Hanna Barbera and MGM characters under WB management and Cartoon Network Studios with their original characters under Turner management. When we had Kids WB this wasn't a big an issue. (Remember shows like What's New Scooby Doo, Get a Clue and Tom and Jerry Tales went to KidsWb first) Ever since there was no more Kids WB, Turner/CN was basically calling the shots as to what shows WB Animation could get greenlit and easily pulling the rug out from under them if they disliked them. (This doesn't mean WB hasn't had it's own problems over the years but a lot of WB show cancellations and screwovers were CN's management) There was no other place legally they could take them. The huge amount of direct to video Scooby and DC movies were made because they didn't have to deal with Turner on them. DC Universe and the Boomerang streaming services were also made to help get further away from it. But now that management is all but gone. The head scheduler of CN I believe is the only serious executive of the post 2001 Turner culture left. Personally I predict they will probably be more willing to launch new series of older characters in the future. I'm not sure exactly how the balance between Cartoon Network and HBO Max will play out in full but the pandemic happening really caused them to alter a lot of their plans. The fact the main Cartoon Network schedule hasn't showed signs of change yet both Adult Swim and Boomerang have is one example though that the culture shift isn't finished yet.
When it is finished I expect the days of Scooby series being shafted in scheduling will end. As far as what they will do with that old management gone, I can't say. But I do see this series and the various pre-school properties they announced as clear examples of things Turner's old management didn't want, but now they can try them. I think there's gonna be a slate of new reboots of HB properties but we seem to still be stalling for time before they start talking about them. And leaks aren't very free flowing right now.
Thank you so much for your detailed answer! I truly appreciate it and it gives me more insight with what’s going on. In regards to the DTV movies. So your saying that those movies are what they truly want to do without the meddling of Turner. So we should expect any future projects to be in the same vein as those recent DTV movies? Since those don’t have the meddling of Turner and they have done as they pleased?
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Post by mattpricetime on Mar 12, 2021 13:34:01 GMT -5
In my life outside Scooby Addicts, i do run an artist trope, so I follow a lot of the behind the scenes politics at various art industries for my own interest and seeing what we can learn from it. I provide reporting and info on this stuff here because since I basically do it already, it's not really extra work for me to share it with my fellow Scooby addicts. I'm not affiliated directly with Warner Bros, though we do know some of them do lurk around here. My invitation to Warner's A-list survey program, found me. Not the other way around lol. I have interacted a lot with the Warner Archive team over the years though. On the actual history of the studios/network this is something that is pretty well understood in the business side but is woefully under talked about in some of the fandoms. And it is needed to understand how we got here. In 1996 when Turner merged with Warner Bros both had animation studios and they wanted to merge them together into one entity. This didn't go as planned for a lot of different people who didn't agree were attempted to be put under the same roof. In 2001 when Jaime Kellner was made head of Turner, the divide as we knew it was formed. Where Warner Bros Animation had the rights to the Looney Tunes, Hanna Barbera and MGM characters under WB management and Cartoon Network Studios with their original characters under Turner management. When we had Kids WB this wasn't a big an issue. (Remember shows like What's New Scooby Doo, Get a Clue and Tom and Jerry Tales went to KidsWb first) Ever since there was no more Kids WB, Turner/CN was basically calling the shots as to what shows WB Animation could get greenlit and easily pulling the rug out from under them if they disliked them. (This doesn't mean WB hasn't had it's own problems over the years but a lot of WB show cancellations and screwovers were CN's management) There was no other place legally they could take them. The huge amount of direct to video Scooby and DC movies were made because they didn't have to deal with Turner on them. DC Universe and the Boomerang streaming services were also made to help get further away from it. But now that management is all but gone. The head scheduler of CN I believe is the only serious executive of the post 2001 Turner culture left. Personally I predict they will probably be more willing to launch new series of older characters in the future. I'm not sure exactly how the balance between Cartoon Network and HBO Max will play out in full but the pandemic happening really caused them to alter a lot of their plans. The fact the main Cartoon Network schedule hasn't showed signs of change yet both Adult Swim and Boomerang have is one example though that the culture shift isn't finished yet.
When it is finished I expect the days of Scooby series being shafted in scheduling will end. As far as what they will do with that old management gone, I can't say. But I do see this series and the various pre-school properties they announced as clear examples of things Turner's old management didn't want, but now they can try them. I think there's gonna be a slate of new reboots of HB properties but we seem to still be stalling for time before they start talking about them. And leaks aren't very free flowing right now.
Thank you so much for your detailed answer! I truly appreciate it and it gives me more insight with what’s going on. In regards to the DTV movies. So your saying that those movies are what they truly want to do without the meddling of Turner. So we should expect any future projects to be in the same vein as those recent DTV movies? Since those don’t have the meddling of Turner and they have done as they pleased?
Honestly that's one of the questions i'm most curious about. For so many years i guarantee you a lot of ideas they would have had for tv series probably ended up as Scooby, Tom and Jerry and DC movies. With the issue that started that moving to be in the past it's going to be very interesting if the series start being more like the dtvs or if they make more tv shows.
The dtv lines are themselves a tradition now. I could see the argument going both ways. HBO Max in itself could also alter their plans in terms of shows vs movies. We don't fully know what the direction they are going in, we just know the barriers that hurt them in the past aren't going to be in their way now.
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