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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 16:53:31 GMT -5
It's not so much the fact that it's real monsters. It's the fact that this is Scooby-Doo. Scooby-Doo is probably one of the last few decent things out there. If WB had been bold enough to declare Velma wrong for once instead of the fakeout similar complaints to excessive violence with Johnny Quest, Space Ghost, Birdman, Herculoids and the like could have occurred...because Velma actually being wrong for once would be a major disturbance in the multiverse. Mystery Incorporated is one of the most acclaimed shows WB Animation has. The entire second season is them fighting a omniscient demon (who's responsible for Native genocide?) and no one complained. Only because they were told it wasn't canon. The DTVs are still canon and still follow WNSD rules. Velma said it herself, "rules are rules" and the main rule in WNSD is "Velma is always right, and if she is supposed to be wrong, she must get technical right." If she had been wrong...because this is canon (as far as WB is concerned anyways)...it would kill the 50th anniversary and franchise and no one wants that or needs it.
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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Feb 7, 2019 16:59:27 GMT -5
Mystery Incorporated is one of the most acclaimed shows WB Animation has. The entire second season is them fighting a omniscient demon (who's responsible for Native genocide?) and no one complained. Only because they were told it wasn't canon. The DTVs are still canon and still follow WNSD rules. Velma said it herself, "rules are rules" and the main rule in WNSD is "Velma is always right, and if she is supposed to be wrong, she must get technical right." If she had been wrong...because this is canon (as far as WB is concerned anyways)...it would kill the 50th anniversary and franchise and no one wants that or needs it. I'm trying to be nice but you're not making any sense. The average person doesn't know Scooby even has a canon.
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Post by ShaphneLegacy27 on Feb 7, 2019 21:24:08 GMT -5
Finally watched it and I have mixed feelings about it. But still don't consider it as the same universe to the original show. Scrappy could have easily filled in for Fred. They could have used Weerd and Bogel to show Velma that ghosts exist. The leadership subplot wasn't needed. And WB obviously needed to do more research on the mid 1980's shows (mostly New Mysteries) given they re-used the summer camp excuse and think the gang are still teenagers. It's like they skipped New Mysteries when re-watching the franchise. I don't think it's the fact that WB didn't do their research or think that Mystery Inc is still in their teens. I think it's the fact that until Pup and MI age was never really that important to the story and since most series have twenty-six episodes at maximum everything could have easily taken place while still in high school as a school vacation of some sort experience. Now while we were told what happened in New Mysteries...that doesn't neccessarily have to apply to what Fred and Velma were doing during 13 ghosts since WB considers everything that isn't Mystery Incorporated or Be Cool to be canon, but also has the live action movies canon to the Mystery Inc timeline (so that jab at Scrappy can work). One year Fred could have written some really bad books that failed to sell and so he went to camp instead the next, Velma's negligence at NASA could have caused her to go to science camp then Mystery Inc gets back together later and things go to the statis quo. Also by Velma being unsure as to what a Scrappy is, that likely means that either she and Fred were not present during the Scrappy era like Hanna-Barbera led us to believe...or that Scrappy and everything we know about him was an illusion. I'm surprised we didn't get a wisecrack about "oh you mean your imaginary friend" from Fred as that would be the easiest way to make a point about what happened to Scrappy without taking sides and actually would explain a lot about why Scrappy appeared to be a marty-stu/gary stu. Except Fred and Velma both interacted with Scrappy in the 1979 series and New Mysteries, so this movie would have to be a separate universe as Velma doesn't know who he is. There is no source that WB has an official canon or that live action is canon to SDMI. They could easily take something from a previous series or movie and place it in a new timeline with rebooting continuity to fit on that new timeline.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 22:09:36 GMT -5
Maybe that's why they leave it up to the viewer on canon (if such a thing even exists). At least we have a real ending though. I really don't think that Velma would say what for no reason at all, she might not have met Scrappy yet and neither has Fred. Maybe the events happened at a different time than when they were produced. This could mean that anything pertaining to Scooby & Scrappy featuring Fred & Velma did not happen until much later. It is easier to test waters with the other 80's characters first than with Scrappy, we got Vincent, the ghouls in a CN show (and maybe in a movie eventually) and Flim Flam, best to save Scrappy until after the Boo Bros and Googie have been adressed for consideration of Scrappy, though I'd rather they not bring back the Hunch Bunch.
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Post by scoobnick on Feb 7, 2019 22:51:50 GMT -5
I'd be fine with bringing back some characters from New scooby mysteries- Dixie Doo anyone? and gearing things up towards having scrappy show up in some fashion because he was actually very interesting in Apocalypse, and an idea for bringing back in, is to age him like was dione to flim flam. have scrappy be a fully grown Great Dane like his uncle.
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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Feb 7, 2019 23:11:04 GMT -5
Seeing the reaction to the trailer vs the reaction to the movie makes me think that whoever edited that trailer is the greatest Scooby Auteur of our time!
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Post by Matt_the_miner_49er on Feb 9, 2019 7:14:22 GMT -5
I'm so and so with the film, I loved the beginning a lot and the animation was wonderful. Loved that Shaggy can fly an airplane still, that part was awesome in my opinion and I did enjoy the intro to the film even though it lacked Scrappy :/ I loved Fred's reaction to every thing, that was priceless. The ending was annoying and so was Velma, in my opinion she was my least favorite part of the film. She was more annoying here than she was in the kiss film, I miss 90s Velma. It would have been fine on its own had they not advertised it as a final chapter for the 13 Ghosts series and had be in another dimension instead type. I choose to ignore the final and act like its not apart of the original series. Well I was going to post my thoughts but I don't think I could say it any better than this. The only thing I would add is that they are obviously paying attention to what we are saying, taking Fred down a notch and making him more vulnerable. Now, if we can get them to remove the skeptic gag from Velma that would be wonderful. You cannot believe in science and at the same time completely discount theories no matter how out there they may be. If real scientists did this, people would still be scared of falling off the edge of the earth.
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Post by russm on Feb 9, 2019 8:34:10 GMT -5
If real scientists did this, people would still be scared of falling off the edge of the earth. Don't understand this as from the ancient Greeks onwards (~600BC) it was known and accepted that the world was spherical. The first estimate of the circumference was made as early as 300 BC.
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Post by Matt_the_miner_49er on Feb 9, 2019 8:39:40 GMT -5
If real scientists did this, people would still be scared of falling off the edge of the earth. Don't understand this as from the ancient Greeks onwards (~600BC) it was known and accepted that the world was spherical. The first estimate of the circumference was made as early as 300 BC. Blame biblical literalists for the prevailing idea of a flat Earth. Some are still arguing it today
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Post by russm on Feb 9, 2019 13:45:27 GMT -5
Don't understand this as from the ancient Greeks onwards (~600BC) it was known and accepted that the world was spherical. The first estimate of the circumference was made as early as 300 BC. Blame biblical literalists for the prevailing idea of a flat Earth. Some are still arguing it today If you see any, tell them St Augustine tells them to knock it off.
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Post by ShaphneLegacy27 on Feb 9, 2019 14:03:55 GMT -5
Maybe that's why they leave it up to the viewer on canon (if such a thing even exists). At least we have a real ending though. I really don't think that Velma would say what for no reason at all, she might not have met Scrappy yet and neither has Fred. Maybe the events happened at a different time than when they were produced. This could mean that anything pertaining to Scooby & Scrappy featuring Fred & Velma did not happen until much later. It is easier to test waters with the other 80's characters first than with Scrappy, we got Vincent, the ghouls in a CN show (and maybe in a movie eventually) and Flim Flam, best to save Scrappy until after the Boo Bros and Googie have been adressed for consideration of Scrappy, though I'd rather they not bring back the Hunch Bunch. I honestly hope WB is secretly planning a sequel because ending this movie with the final ghost being fake, not explaining what Scrappy, Weerd and Bogel have been up to and not explaining why Velma has suddenly forgot who Scrappy is would be like ending Finding Nemo where Marlin and Dory get sucked up by the whale. Also, Shaggy and Daphne were clearly past 18 in the original 13 Ghosts and if I recall, Fred was stated to be 36 in one of the What's New? based movies so this movie is a whole new timeline. But, in the mean time, I divided the main series (everything not including live action and reboots) into four different timelines. Timeline A (Hanna Barbera timeline) Where Are You? The New Scooby-Doo Movies The Scooby-Doo Show (Fraphne break up) Scooby-Doo and Scrappy-Doo (1979 series only) The New Scooby and Scrappy-Doo Show (Fred and Velma leave) The New Scooby-Doo Mysteries Superstars 10 movies The 13 Ghosts of Scooby-Doo Timeline B (Main Warner Bros timeline) A Pup Named Scooby-Doo (Placing this in the main WB timeline as I consider it to be a reboot as New Mysteries stated Scooby and Shaggy knew each other since infants) Where Are You? The New Scooby-Doo Movies The Scooby-Doo Show 2003 DTVs Scooby-Doo and Scrappy-Doo (1979 series) Scrappy and Yabba-Doo (Scrappy leaves) What's New Scooby-Doo? and 2004 to 2009 DTVs Post 2010 DTVs (apart from Curse of the 13th Ghost) Timeline C (First Four DTVs timeline) A Pup Named Scooby-Doo Where Are You? The New Scooby-Doo Movies The Scooby-Doo Show Scooby-Doo and Scrappy-Doo (1979 series) Scooby-Doo and Scrappy-Doo (1980-82 Series; Gang break up) Scrappy and Yabba-Doo (Scrappy leaves) 1998 to 2001 DTVs Zombi Island Sequel Timeline D (Curse of 13th Ghost Timeline) A Pup Named Scooby-Doo Where Are You? The New Scooby-Doo Movies The Scooby-Doo Show The 13 Ghosts of Scooby-Doo (This is Scrappy's only interaction with the gang in this timeline while Fred and Velma are at summer camp) 2003 DTVs What's New Scooby-Doo? and 2004-2009 DTVs (fake monsters only; minus anything stating or portraying the gang as official adults) Post 2010 DTVs Curse of the 13th Ghost
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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Feb 9, 2019 14:19:34 GMT -5
Timeline D (Curse of 13th Ghost Timeline) A Pup Named Scooby-Doo Where Are You? The New Scooby-Doo Movies The Scooby-Doo Show The 13 Ghosts of Scooby-Doo (This is Scrappy's only interaction with the gang in this timeline while Fred and Velma are at summer camp) 2003 DTVs What's New Scooby-Doo? and 2004-2009 DTVs (fake monsters only) Post 2010 DTVs Curse of the 13th Ghost The Samurai's mask is in the yard sale so Samurai Sword happened in this timeline. Also, I think this movie was implying that 13 Ghosts happened before Where Are You since Shaggy and Scooby blame the Chest of Demons for why they're afraid of fake ghosts.
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Post by ShaphneLegacy27 on Feb 9, 2019 15:31:52 GMT -5
Or they just meant why they were still afraid of the fake ones.
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Post by manbearpig on Feb 9, 2019 20:39:03 GMT -5
Maybe that's why they leave it up to the viewer on canon (if such a thing even exists). At least we have a real ending though. I really don't think that Velma would say what for no reason at all, she might not have met Scrappy yet and neither has Fred. Maybe the events happened at a different time than when they were produced. This could mean that anything pertaining to Scooby & Scrappy featuring Fred & Velma did not happen until much later. It is easier to test waters with the other 80's characters first than with Scrappy, we got Vincent, the ghouls in a CN show (and maybe in a movie eventually) and Flim Flam, best to save Scrappy until after the Boo Bros and Googie have been adressed for consideration of Scrappy, though I'd rather they not bring back the Hunch Bunch. I honestly hope WB is secretly planning a sequel because ending this movie with the final ghost being fake, not explaining what Scrappy, Weerd and Bogel have been up to and not explaining why Velma has suddenly forgot who Scrappy is would be like ending Finding Nemo where Marlin and Dory get sucked up by the whale. Also, Shaggy and Daphne were clearly past 18 in the original 13 Ghosts and if I recall, Fred was stated to be 36 in one of the What's New? based movies so this movie is a whole new timeline. But, in the mean time, I divided the main series (everything not including live action and reboots) into four different timelines. Timeline A (Hanna Barbera timeline) Where Are You? The New Scooby-Doo Movies The Scooby-Doo Show (Fraphne break up) Scooby-Doo and Scrappy-Doo (1979 series only) The New Scooby and Scrappy-Doo Show (Fred and Velma leave) The New Scooby-Doo Mysteries Superstars 10 movies The 13 Ghosts of Scooby-Doo Timeline B (Main Warner Bros timeline) A Pup Named Scooby-Doo (Placing this in the main WB timeline as I consider it to be a reboot as New Mysteries stated Scooby and Shaggy knew each other since infants) Where Are You? The New Scooby-Doo Movies The Scooby-Doo Show 2003 DTVs Scooby-Doo and Scrappy-Doo (1979 series) Scrappy and Yabba-Doo (Scrappy leaves) What's New Scooby-Doo? and 2004 to 2009 DTVs Post 2010 DTVs (apart from Curse of the 13th Ghost) Timeline C (First Four DTVs timeline) A Pup Named Scooby-Doo Where Are You? The New Scooby-Doo Movies The Scooby-Doo Show Scooby-Doo and Scrappy-Doo (1979 series) Scooby-Doo and Scrappy-Doo (1980-82 Series; Gang break up) Scrappy and Yabba-Doo (Scrappy leaves) 1998 to 2001 DTVs Zombi Island Sequel Timeline D (Curse of 13th Ghost Timeline) A Pup Named Scooby-Doo Where Are You? The New Scooby-Doo Movies The Scooby-Doo Show The 13 Ghosts of Scooby-Doo (This is Scrappy's only interaction with the gang in this timeline while Fred and Velma are at summer camp) 2003 DTVs What's New Scooby-Doo? and 2004-2009 DTVs (fake monsters only; minus anything stating or portraying the gang as official adults) Post 2010 DTVs Curse of the 13th Ghost B is my favorite But I think that What's New is in different time line because of characters' personalities and the presence of the supernatural. In 2010's DTVs they are convinced that there are no real ghosts and monsters.
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Post by manbearpig on Feb 9, 2019 21:05:13 GMT -5
The movie was definitely good (7,5/10 from me). I really enjoyed Daphne in it, I hope she'll be like that also in the future releases (even without changing the outfit ) The leadership thread was cleverly made and satisfying at the end. In my eyes, Fred became an even stronger leader after all, but I admit that the whole cheerleading thing was a bit weird. Flim-Flam and Vincent Van Ghoul were also enjoyable characters, I have no complains about them. Despite my dislike of Scrappy Doo, I was disappointed that he didn't appear in the film, it would be interesting in my opinion. The creators lost their chance for showing a new, modern approach to this character. The age differences bothered me from the release of the trailer, but jonathanmuddlemore wrote everything about it, so I won't do it again. Unlike many of you, I wasn't annoyed by Velma. She was in her character and her motivations were legitimate in my eyes. She's, as always, a very organised person of rules and she just follows the radical rules of scientism. Accepting only the things proven by empirical evidence ensures her in the comfort zone she created, because only this makes her feel to be in control of her own life - solid rules. The whole supernatural stuff is too chaotic for her and disturbs her. That's her paradox - her logical scepticism is influenced by illogical fears of getting out of that comfort zone. After that "ski lift accident" her rules were broken, making her anxious because of being forcibly thrown out of her comfort zone. Only after Fred's encouragement and accepting the Chest of Demons rules (as she said: "Rules are rules") she got herself back together. After the 13th Ghost turned out to be fake, she returned to her old rules with satisfaction and relief, formulating logical theories about what happened earlier. She may be right, but even I am with Daphne, Fred and Flim-Flam. Luckily for them, she's too intelligent to think she's infallible. That's all when it comes to Velma's psyche. I've dug too deep... I got the feeling that the movie was created (influenced?) by people who didn't really like the original series. That's because I would make a similar ending to the 13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo
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