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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Feb 9, 2019 21:37:45 GMT -5
I got the feeling that the movie was created (influenced?) by people who didn't really like the original series. That's because I would make a similar ending to the 13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo See, despite all the retcons, I never felt any sense of malice from this movie. Even Flim Flam, the character that the original 13 Ghosts writers HATED, felt like he was written with love.
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Post by manbearpig on Feb 9, 2019 22:00:09 GMT -5
I got the feeling that the movie was created (influenced?) by people who didn't really like the original series. That's because I would make a similar ending to the 13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo See, despite all the retcons, I never felt any sense of malice from this movie. Even Flim Flam, the character that the original 13 Ghosts writers HATED, felt like he was written with love. I wasn't 100% serious here, but you are right. The movie was made by the people who care about Scooby Doo, as we do here. If there's any malice, it would be among the WB executives, who share an inexplicable reluctance to Scrappy Doo, since the 2002 movie.
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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Feb 9, 2019 22:10:34 GMT -5
See, despite all the retcons, I never felt any sense of malice from this movie. Even Flim Flam, the character that the original 13 Ghosts writers HATED, felt like he was written with love. I wasn't 100% serious here, but you are right. The movie was made by the people who care about Scooby Doo, as we do here. If there's any malice, it would be among the WB executives, who share an inexplicable reluctance to Scrappy Doo, since the 2002 movie. I can't tell if Scrappy's absence was an editorial mandate or a practicality issue. The presence of Flim Flam always made Scrappy's role in 13 Ghosts feel redundant and the movie had to add Fred and Velma into the mix. I think it would've been impossible to include him as a main character but I get the feeling having him halfheartedly hand-waved, instead of given a cameo, was a producer's call.
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Post by russm on Feb 10, 2019 7:03:37 GMT -5
Unlike many of you, I wasn't annoyed by Velma. She was in her character and her motivations were legitimate in my eyes. She's, as always, a very organised person of rules and she just follows the radical rules of scientism. Accepting only the things proven by empirical evidence ensures her in the comfort zone she created, because only this makes her feel to be in control of her own life - solid rules. The whole supernatural stuff is too chaotic for her and disturbs her. That's her paradox - her logical scepticism is influenced by illogical fears of getting out of that comfort zone. After that "ski lift accident" her rules were broken, making her anxious because of being forcibly thrown out of her comfort zone. Only after Fred's encouragement and accepting the Chest of Demons rules (as she said: "Rules are rules") she got herself back together. After the 13th Ghost turned out to be fake, she returned to her old rules with satisfaction and relief, formulating logical theories about what happened earlier. She may be right, but even I am with Daphne, Fred and Flim-Flam. Luckily for them, she's too intelligent to think she's infallible. That's all when it comes to Velma's psyche. I've dug too deep... I got the feeling that the movie was created (influenced?) by people who didn't really like the original series. That's because I would make a similar ending to the 13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo I've always seen Velma in the 'incredible claims required incredible evidence' camp than scientism (which is a whole other ball game). Despite what the quantum woo-woo merchants may say, what we know of how the world works precludes 1 the supernatural like ESP, ghosts, vampires, werewolves etc. However, what the scientific method requires is the evidence equivalent of habeas corpus. The problem is is that Velma's world is not our world, it's not even Elmo's World, it's the Scooby Doo world with cartoon physics, plot armour and all kinds of stuff that are not in our world. This means you can't directly map from one world to the other. Coupled with WB lack of consistent cannon means we get these odd things that just don't make sense in 'our world' or when compared to other Scooby series. I've seen reviews for this film where one says they loved the Shaphne tone of the film, another that it was a good Fraphne movie, another that it was irredeemable garbage. Same movie, different reviewers. 1But does not preclude the divine
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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Feb 10, 2019 13:19:50 GMT -5
I do find it interesting that in Zombie Island, Fred takes on the role of The Skeptic instead of Velma. I wonder if they'll remember that for Return to Zombie Island (they won't).
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Post by manbearpig on Feb 10, 2019 18:45:55 GMT -5
Unlike many of you, I wasn't annoyed by Velma. She was in her character and her motivations were legitimate in my eyes. She's, as always, a very organised person of rules and she just follows the radical rules of scientism. Accepting only the things proven by empirical evidence ensures her in the comfort zone she created, because only this makes her feel to be in control of her own life - solid rules. The whole supernatural stuff is too chaotic for her and disturbs her. That's her paradox - her logical scepticism is influenced by illogical fears of getting out of that comfort zone. After that "ski lift accident" her rules were broken, making her anxious because of being forcibly thrown out of her comfort zone. Only after Fred's encouragement and accepting the Chest of Demons rules (as she said: "Rules are rules") she got herself back together. After the 13th Ghost turned out to be fake, she returned to her old rules with satisfaction and relief, formulating logical theories about what happened earlier. She may be right, but even I am with Daphne, Fred and Flim-Flam. Luckily for them, she's too intelligent to think she's infallible. That's all when it comes to Velma's psyche. I've dug too deep... I got the feeling that the movie was created (influenced?) by people who didn't really like the original series. That's because I would make a similar ending to the 13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo I've always seen Velma in the 'incredible claims required incredible evidence' camp than scientism (which is a whole other ball game). Despite what the quantum woo-woo merchants may say, what we know of how the world works precludes 1 the supernatural like ESP, ghosts, vampires, werewolves etc. However, what the scientific method requires is the evidence equivalent of habeas corpus. The problem is is that Velma's world is not our world, it's not even Elmo's World, it's the Scooby Doo world with cartoon physics, plot armour and all kinds of stuff that are not in our world. This means you can't directly map from one world to the other. Coupled with WB lack of consistent cannon means we get these odd things that just don't make sense in 'our world' or when compared to other Scooby series. I've seen reviews for this film where one says they loved the Shaphne tone of the film, another that it was a good Fraphne movie, another that it was irredeemable garbage. Same movie, different reviewers. 1But does not preclude the divine I know that Velma's world is not our world, but, to be precise, any fictional world isn't fully comparable to ours, no matter how realistic it is. Current DTVs are based mostly on SDWAY, which is a quite realistic, down-to-earth show by cartoon standards, mainly because of its educational message. Because of that, I let myself to theorize about Velma's motivations (as she's a human character with emotions comparable to ours, so why not?), but these are only my opinions based mostly on my personal views on Scooby's world, so please, don't take them too serious
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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Feb 10, 2019 20:02:57 GMT -5
I do find it interesting that in Zombie Island, Fred takes on the role of The Skeptic instead of Velma. I wonder if they'll remember that for Return to Zombie Island (they won't). Sorry to derail this conversation further but on A Pup Named Scooby-Doo, Daphne was the one with the "There's no such thing as ghosts" catchphrase. She even pulls the same "I saw evidence of the supernatural but I still don't believe in it" move in Ghost Who's Coming to Dinner. It seems like Scooby-Doo tropes were a lot more flexible before What's New since Pup was also the same series where the bad guys call them "pesky kids"* *(as a side note, I hate the meddling kids running gag in all modern Scooby stuff. They've done every possible variation of this joke and it was never the only thing the villain's called them until recently)
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Post by konja7 on Feb 11, 2019 0:44:44 GMT -5
Also, Shaggy and Daphne were clearly past 18 in the original 13 Ghosts and if I recall, Fred was stated to be 36 in one of the What's New? based movies so this movie is a whole new timeline. I really doubt he was 36 in What's New. I think it's a good film. was entertaining. I liked the role of the characters in the story (although Velma was a bit irritating). I really doubt we should believe the theory of Velma.
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Post by futurerocker on Feb 11, 2019 12:43:02 GMT -5
Saturday night I finally got the chance to watch Scooby Doo and Curse of the 13th Ghost and I personally think its an alright film. The movie does have its share of problems. Before I get into the negative with the movie lets look over the positives first.
First off, the villain in this movie is a huge improvement from anything we got last year. His design fits really well with the other demons from the chest and he posed a real threat to the gang in this movie. The animation style is still great using the same style from the previous movies. The music in this was also a big plus from me with the 80s inspired song. The backstory they gave the chest was also pretty cool, though I have seen some people not liking the backstory. Fred character was really fun and I like his subplot of him trying to find his purpose and the dynamic between him and Daphne was fun. Also NO romance subplot for once. It was great.
Now on to the negatives. The absence of Weird, Bogel, and Scrappy. Now I know people aren't huge fans of these characters, but at the same time, they were a huge part of that series and really should've been brought back. Velma was pretty annoying in this movie with the whole everything supernatural is not real and really wished they would've proven her wrong at the end of this one which leads into my main complaint. The ghost was fake and this is supposed to be the end of the series. You ended the series and people are still wondering where the last ghost is and if we're ever gonna see them continue the story. This movie failed its sole purpose and that is ending the 13th Ghost mystery after 33 years with them capturing the last ghost. Hopefully, sometime in the future, we can get a real conclusion to the series. Final thing is, I think they went a little overboard with Daphne and didn't do anything for Shaggy and Scooby. Shaggy and Scooby to me felt useless and I felt they should've gotten the same treatment as Daphne.
Overall, as a Scooby movie, it's fine. I feel fans of the series who were looking for a satisfying end are gonna be disappointed, but as a Scooby fan, there is fun to be had.
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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Feb 11, 2019 13:11:35 GMT -5
I think everyone's chimed in on this film except for The Mods, right?
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Post by Doo on Feb 11, 2019 18:54:18 GMT -5
I think everyone's chimed in on this film except for The Mods, right? Yeah, I've been super busy and haven't had a chance to type up my review yet (at least on here, I did on my blog for those that follow that) but I have seen it. SpiderScooby and ScoobyAddict are pretty busy at the moment and haven't been coming on much, so I'm not sure if they've seen it yet or not.
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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Feb 11, 2019 19:07:01 GMT -5
I think everyone's chimed in on this film except for The Mods, right? Yeah, I've been super busy and haven't had a chance to type up my review yet (at least on here, I did on my blog for those that follow that) but I have seen it. SpiderScooby and ScoobyAddict are pretty busy at the moment and haven't been coming on much, so I'm not sure if they've seen it yet or not. Scooby Snax?
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Post by Doo on Feb 11, 2019 19:48:30 GMT -5
Yeah, I've been super busy and haven't had a chance to type up my review yet (at least on here, I did on my blog for those that follow that) but I have seen it. SpiderScooby and ScoobyAddict are pretty busy at the moment and haven't been coming on much, so I'm not sure if they've seen it yet or not. Scooby Snax? Yes! I'll post my review on here soon as well though
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Post by snesgamer83 on Feb 11, 2019 20:29:12 GMT -5
I'm conflicted. I enjoyed some of the throwbacks and comedy of the film, but disappointed at the removal of characters like Scrappy and Bogel/Weerd just so they could be "safe" for modern audiences, as well as several plot points that felt off. I mean yes, I get that they have to get the kids watching, but this movie was supposed to be for us who've been waiting 30-some years for a proper conclusion - let the kiddies have all the rest of the DTVS
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Post by barneynedward on Feb 12, 2019 3:39:45 GMT -5
My theory is that when Shaggy and Scooby were tricked into opening the chest, Asamad Van Ghoul saw an opportunity to redeem himself by preventing the real Asmodeus from getting loose again. I uave a feeling that instead of actually becoming Asmodeus, Asamad was simply bound to him. I suspect that maybe Shaggy and Scooby really only unleashed twelve of the demons. When the chest was lost for good, Asamad was able to find peace.
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