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Post by shutuo456 on Feb 6, 2019 8:36:42 GMT -5
Did anyone liked it?
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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Feb 6, 2019 9:01:46 GMT -5
I'm going to go with a yes. Don't go into this expecting it to be tonally similiar to 13 Ghosts. It's been made decades later and by completely different people. It's very much a modern DTV film that pays homage to the original series rather than a true spiritual sequel.
Continuity-wise, I did take issue with the gang and Flim Flam's age in the movie. The movie tries to claim that they were still in high when 13 Ghosts happened and they are still not yet 18. Flim Flam is apparently around the same age but didn't hit puberty until relatively recent. It just was needlessly complicated and I would have preferred they just ignored the age thing altogether. Also, Boggle and Weerd should've at least been mentioned since they acknowledged A LOT of other deep cuts from the original show. While we're on the subject of easter eggs, I think they could've come up with a cleverer Scrappy gag. I understand why those three characters weren't included since there was already a lot of moving parts but since they went all in on the fanservice in some areas, it felt weird that they took half-measures for those characters.
As a film, I think they did pad out the second act too much which left the third act feeling very rushed. The last 9 minutes are pretty much one giant info dump. Now, as for spoilers...
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I found the idea of having the 13th ghost turn good instead of needing to be caught interesting. However, as mentioned above, the payoff was rushed. I think too many people are taking Velma's "explanation" about the 13 Ghosts being hallucinations at face value. We see Vince and his partner fighting ghosts and using the Chest of Demons in the flashbacks. It's clear from the gang's reaction that they also know that what Velma said was nonsense. There's no way any of what she said at the end was intended to be a serious retcon of the original show. The only thing that was truly left open to audience interpretation was whether Vince's ancestor was truly "redeemed" or if Velma was completely making that up as well. I like to think she wasn't since it gives the story more closure.
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Post by shaggyfan86 on Feb 6, 2019 12:03:03 GMT -5
I'm so and so with the film, I loved the beginning a lot and the animation was wonderful. Loved that Shaggy can fly an airplane still, that part was awesome in my opinion and I did enjoy the intro to the film even though it lacked Scrappy :/
I loved Fred's reaction to every thing, that was priceless.
The ending was annoying and so was Velma, in my opinion she was my least favorite part of the film. She was more annoying here than she was in the kiss film, I miss 90s Velma.
It would have been fine on its own had they not advertised it as a final chapter for the 13 Ghosts series and had be in another dimension instead type. I choose to ignore the final and act like its not apart of the original series.
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Post by mattpricetime on Feb 6, 2019 16:13:05 GMT -5
Overall, my verdict is indeed that I did like it. But there were obviously some parts that I would have like handled better. But I think a bunch of us hashed a lot of this out in the Early Review thread.
This is a case where i'd call it good but not great. The call on the ending is still the major sticking point though. If that's the last these plot elements are ever used in Scooby leaving us with a couple different interpretations is one of the weirdest decisions by WB this decade.
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Post by Chorake on Feb 6, 2019 16:13:39 GMT -5
Good movie? Sure. It's decent.
An actual satisfying conclusion or revisiting of 13 Ghosts and the '80s-era in general? Nah.
Admittedly, this is the 50th Anniversary of the franchise, but I don't think anyone was truly expecting Warner to deliver what everyone probably wanted.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 22:24:43 GMT -5
Well i enjoyed it, I also think there's a reason why we got that neutral ending. If WB picks any one side...Either Daphne's or Velma's...something will cause angry mobs at their doors like what happened with Johnny Quest and similar shows...during the 60's at Hanna-B. We really don't need another angry mob thing...the Scrappy hate fills enough of that for over twenty years worth the quota. Better to leave something like that in the call of the viewer than to have the characters say one way or the other. Irritating? Maybe, especially with Velma's dialogue, but then again WB pretty much said they only care about WNSD and what's the main rule of WNSD? "Even if Velma should logically be wrong for once, she's always right." Now that raises more questions. Did Shaggy & Daphne take Flim Flam & Scooby on more serious crimes that they percieved as real ghosts causing a mental breakdown for Scooby during 13? Was Scrappy an illusion? Did Fred ever write a book? Did Velma ever intern at NASA? Will Vincent decide to go into horror acting?
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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Feb 6, 2019 23:00:12 GMT -5
Well i enjoyed it, I also think there's a reason why we got that neutral ending. If WB picks any one side...Either Daphne's or Velma's...something will cause angry mobs at their doors like what happened with Johnny Quest and similar shows I don't really get what you mean. "Real Monsters" is never a complaint from parent groups outside of the 80s when D&D and Kiss were indoctrinating kids into Satanism. You see real monsters in TV and movies all the time without anyone complaining. |
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Post by Chorake on Feb 6, 2019 23:18:21 GMT -5
Was Scrappy an illusion? Did Fred ever write a book? Did Velma ever intern at NASA? Will Vincent decide to go into horror acting?  Was there really a house? Was there actually a Mrs. Baker? Robin, this could be a case of group hypnosis... Attachments:
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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Feb 6, 2019 23:25:32 GMT -5
Was Scrappy an illusion? Did Fred ever write a book? Did Velma ever intern at NASA? Will Vincent decide to go into horror acting? Was there really a house? Was there actually a Mrs. Baker? Robin, this could be a case of group hypnosis... That's literally the exact scene I thought of when Velma presented her "theory" |
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Post by velmablake on Feb 6, 2019 23:42:36 GMT -5
First, I'll say what I did like about the film.
+ The role switching. Daphne taking charge (that car chase was awesome), Shaggy flying the plane and telling the gang to split up for once (I'm surprised Fred didn't comment on that moment!), and Fred cheerleading (that whole gag was like a reversal of the Mascot Daphne episode from BCSD).
+ Jealousy-free/romance-free Fred and Daphne interactions (okay so maybe my prediction about them being jealous of each other in this film was off, but I was right about their leadership-rivalry being refreshing to watch).
+ One of the best Scooby chase songs I've heard in a good while (Scoobystition).
+ Flim-Flam was definitely in character!
+ Vincent Van Ghoul.
Sigh...time to get honest.
- So yeah, I stand by what I said about the age thing between Flim-Flam and the gang. I really don't care about "cartoon logic" in this case - it made no sense for him to be that close to the gang in age, especially when the Zombie Island sequel was being worked on right as or after this was completed. They easily could've aged equally.
- The Scrappy hate train is getting old, tired, and run down. Not even a brief surprise cameo in the finale to a series he co-starred in???
- Velma's demeanor and the 13 Ghosts presumably being fake.
- Is it wrong to confess that the cons above are making me concerned, and my expectations lowered, for Return To Zombie Island? This film left me with more questions than answers, and not in a completely-satisfying-cliffhanger kind of way.
With all that said, this film gets a neutral rating from me.
Question: If Velma proved the 13 Ghosts fake at the end but Flim-Flam gave her and the chest next to her that look, does that mean they have the actual Demon Chest?
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Post by mattpricetime on Feb 6, 2019 23:52:30 GMT -5
Honestly i'm not sure why i've seen so many people actually take Velma's theory so seriously here. I thought it was her own theory that no one else in the cast believed was credible.
I think the ambiguity is just whether Asmodeus actually repented and is no longer a threat or if he just caused the avalanche and got out of there fast.
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Post by ShaphneLegacy27 on Feb 7, 2019 3:00:39 GMT -5
Finally watched it and I have mixed feelings about it. But still don't consider it as the same universe to the original show. Scrappy could have easily filled in for Fred. They could have used Weerd and Bogel to show Velma that ghosts exist. The leadership subplot wasn't needed. And WB obviously needed to do more research on the mid 1980's shows (mostly New Mysteries) given they re-used the summer camp excuse and think the gang are still teenagers. It's like they skipped New Mysteries when re-watching the franchise.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 16:19:25 GMT -5
Well i enjoyed it, I also think there's a reason why we got that neutral ending. If WB picks any one side...Either Daphne's or Velma's...something will cause angry mobs at their doors like what happened with Johnny Quest and similar shows I don't really get what you mean. "Real Monsters" is never a complaint from parent groups outside of the 80s when D&D and Kiss were indoctrinating kids into Satanism. You see real monsters in TV and movies all the time without anyone complaining. It's not so much the fact that it's real monsters. It's the fact that this is Scooby-Doo. Scooby-Doo is probably one of the last few decent things out there. If WB had been bold enough to declare Velma wrong for once instead of the fakeout similar complaints to excessive violence with Johnny Quest, Space Ghost, Birdman, Herculoids and the like could have occurred...because Velma actually being wrong for once would be a major disturbance in the multiverse. |
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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Feb 7, 2019 16:26:03 GMT -5
I don't really get what you mean. "Real Monsters" is never a complaint from parent groups outside of the 80s when D&D and Kiss were indoctrinating kids into Satanism. You see real monsters in TV and movies all the time without anyone complaining. It's not so much the fact that it's real monsters. It's the fact that this is Scooby-Doo. Scooby-Doo is probably one of the last few decent things out there. If WB had been bold enough to declare Velma wrong for once instead of the fakeout similar complaints to excessive violence with Johnny Quest, Space Ghost, Birdman, Herculoids and the like could have occurred...because Velma actually being wrong for once would be a major disturbance in the multiverse. Mystery Incorporated is one of the most acclaimed shows WB Animation has. The entire second season is them fighting a omniscient demon (who's responsible for Native genocide?) and no one complained. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 16:47:40 GMT -5
Finally watched it and I have mixed feelings about it. But still don't consider it as the same universe to the original show. Scrappy could have easily filled in for Fred. They could have used Weerd and Bogel to show Velma that ghosts exist. The leadership subplot wasn't needed. And WB obviously needed to do more research on the mid 1980's shows (mostly New Mysteries) given they re-used the summer camp excuse and think the gang are still teenagers. It's like they skipped New Mysteries when re-watching the franchise. I don't think it's the fact that WB didn't do their research or think that Mystery Inc is still in their teens. I think it's the fact that until Pup and MI age was never really that important to the story and since most series have twenty-six episodes at maximum everything could have easily taken place while still in high school as a school vacation of some sort experience. Now while we were told what happened in New Mysteries...that doesn't neccessarily have to apply to what Fred and Velma were doing during 13 ghosts since WB considers everything that isn't Mystery Incorporated or Be Cool to be canon, but also has the live action movies canon to the Mystery Inc timeline (so that jab at Scrappy can work). One year Fred could have written some really bad books that failed to sell and so he went to camp instead the next, Velma's negligence at NASA could have caused her to go to science camp then Mystery Inc gets back together later and things go to the statis quo. Also by Velma being unsure as to what a Scrappy is, that likely means that either she and Fred were not present during the Scrappy era like Hanna-Barbera led us to believe...or that Scrappy and everything we know about him was an illusion. I'm surprised we didn't get a wisecrack about "oh you mean your imaginary friend" from Fred as that would be the easiest way to make a point about what happened to Scrappy without taking sides and actually would explain a lot about why Scrappy appeared to be a marty-stu/gary stu. |
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