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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Feb 21, 2020 10:50:40 GMT -5
Is it me or does it seem weirdly dead right now? 2016-2019 was a huge boom period. Lots of podcasts. Lost of conversations on Twitter. Lots of hype for future and current projects. Now most of those podcasts are defunct, a lot of prominent fans have left twitter, and there's surprisingly low hype for the upcoming THEATRICAL BIG BUDGET MOVIE and the tv series that's currently running. Even this website seems deader than it was a couple years ago. It feels hard not to blame Curse of the 13th Ghost and Return to Zombie Island
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2020 14:02:11 GMT -5
I know what you mean, it seems like right now we're in a bit of a transitional period as far as activity in the fandom goes. I'm sure it will spike a bit back up once the theatrical film is released but I'm also surprised not many have really talked about it online. It isn't the first time things have been a tad dormant but it is really strange, especially when new stuff is being released
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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Feb 21, 2020 14:09:01 GMT -5
I know what you mean, it seems like right now we're in a bit of a transitional period as far as activity in the fandom goes. I'm sure it will spike a bit back up once the theatrical film is released but I'm also surprised not many have really talked about it online. It isn't the first time things have been a tad dormant but it is really strange, especially when new stuff is being released My friend who runs Scoobypedia told me that he doesn't plan on watching any future Guess Who episodes. That sucks but it seems to be the level of discouragement a lot of people are feeling rn.
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Post by Doo on Feb 21, 2020 14:52:05 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree with all of that. I think it does have to do with the general over-forcing nostalgia into everything (Guess Who included), which is ironic because they were supposed to be the same tone, but they feel off to a lot of fans. I think a lot of people are feeling discouraged with the direction the writers are taking things, especially after such solid, radical series like SDMI and BCSD.
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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Feb 21, 2020 14:54:45 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree with all of that. I think it does have to do with the general over-forcing nostalgia into everything (Guess Who included), which is ironic because they were supposed to be the same tone, but they feel off to a lot of fans. I think a lot of people are feeling discouraged with the direction the writers are taking things, especially after such solid, radical series like SDMI and BCSD. I just don't see what makes Guess Who different from What's New besides Guess Who having better animation.
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Post by Doo on Feb 21, 2020 15:03:37 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree with all of that. I think it does have to do with the general over-forcing nostalgia into everything (Guess Who included), which is ironic because they were supposed to be the same tone, but they feel off to a lot of fans. I think a lot of people are feeling discouraged with the direction the writers are taking things, especially after such solid, radical series like SDMI and BCSD. I just don't see what makes Guess Who different from What's New besides Guess Who having better animation. While WNSD did have throwbacks to the classic character traits, Guess Who feels like they are overusing certain elements to death (like having the door gag nearly every single episode, Velma saying "My glasses! I can't see without my glasses!" sounds kinda stilted at times, etc.), and just generally feeling like they are so focused on making it exactly like Where Are You that they are trying too hard. The gang also all had distinct personalities in WNSD, whereas in Guess Who, Fred, Velma and Daphne seem like cardboard cutouts who could have their lines be interchangeable.
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Post by russm on Feb 21, 2020 15:18:07 GMT -5
The signal to noise ratio in the current Scooby era is not good. It's not bad it's just meh, which is even worse. There is currently nothing compelling on offer, Guess Who is just misfiring on all cylinders for me, the current movies don't hold much appeal (and I include SCOOB! in that given their current lackluster output).
Nostalgia ain't what it used to be, and no, iot doesn't sell.
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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Feb 21, 2020 15:32:39 GMT -5
The signal to noise ratio in the current Scooby era is not good. It's not bad it's just meh, which is even worse. There is currently nothing compelling on offer, Guess Who is just misfiring on all cylinders for me, the current movies don't hold much appeal (and I include SCOOB! in that given their current lackluster output). Nostalgia ain't what it used to be, and no, iot doesn't sell. I do have some insider info on SCOOB and I can say that the movie is much weirder than the marketing is letting on. I'm not saying anything beyond that
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2020 19:12:03 GMT -5
I think another thing that's not doing so hot right now is the general distaste for the Hanna-Barbera style. That is to say, mainstream audiences find the style lazy and unappealing...and are even starting to think it was bad for the heyday of Hanna-Barbera.
Maybe Scoob however weird it might be will change that perception. Though there is at least two things people are starting to warm up to with that. Blue Falcon and the fact that Daphne as a kid is dressed as Wonder Woman. The Daphne being WW might HB fans excited for a future Superpowers/JLA appearance.
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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Feb 21, 2020 19:46:46 GMT -5
I think another thing that's not doing so hot right now is the general distaste for the Hanna-Barbera style. That is to say, mainstream audiences find the style lazy and unappealing...and are even starting to think it was bad for the heyday of Hanna-Barbera. People have hated Hanna-Barbera since the 90s. How mainstream audiences feel about Hanna-Barbera has little relevance to a discussion about the Scooby fandom (unless you're generally talking about how Scoob will be received)
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Post by elemage on Feb 22, 2020 2:00:15 GMT -5
Honestly, for such a long-running franchise, Scooby-Doo has one of the smallest fandoms I've ever been a part of. Even if we were in a slump comparable to the 1980's and 1990's, there should still be a sizable fanbase online. Especially in 2020, where kids who grew up with What's New, Mystery Inc. or Be Cool should be well past the age of joining social media.
I personally think Scooby is just one of those properties where everyone knows and loves it, but don't actively participate in discussions about it.
I mean... Outside of the Scooby-Doo subreddit, these forum boards, and Scoobypedia, I don't really know any places for Scooby-Doo fans to congregate, and the places I do know about aren't exactly buzzing with activity.
That being said, I do agree that Curse of the 13th Ghost and Return to Zombie Island hyped up a lot of people, and then instantly tarnished any goodwill they had when they released, and have certainly lowered people's expectations for SCOOB.
I wasn't even excited for SCOOB to begin with, since it's less of a Scooby-Doo movie and more of a Hanna-Barbera: Infinity War movie. Not to mention the voice actor controversy. How do you take a cast that's been doing their roles for years (and in Welker's case, since the very beginning) and just recast them all? And I'm very salty that they didn't give Velma or Shaggy a decent redesign. Those two haven't changed their gaudy outfits since the 1980's. And even then Shaggy's was just a palette swap (Red-shirt Shaggy) and Velma gained a white undershirt (Pup Velma). But the total failure of the last two movies gives me absolutely no hope that the people behind the franchise know what they're doing.
And then on the comics side, they went and cancelled Scooby Apocalypse because the dude at WB in charge of licensing the HB properties to DC didn't like the direction DC was taking said properties? And wanted them to return Scooby to its "classic format"?
God, WB is going to kill Scooby-Doo by trying to force it into being the 1969-1979 version for the rest of time.
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Post by Doo on Feb 22, 2020 12:03:19 GMT -5
God, WB is going to kill Scooby-Doo by trying to force it into being the 1969-1979 version for the rest of time. I think this is where most people's frustration is stemming from, and rightfully so. It stifles the creative process and growth of a franchise if you never allow it to change even a single aspect. Scooby-Doo has lasted so long as a franchise because each series did a different, unique thing that showed us the essence of the characters in a different way, not by making the exact same series with the same basic plot for 50 years.
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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Feb 22, 2020 12:28:19 GMT -5
God, WB is going to kill Scooby-Doo by trying to force it into being the 1969-1979 version for the rest of time. I think this is where most people's frustration is stemming from, and rightfully so. It stifles the creative process and growth of a franchise if you never allow it to change even a single aspect. Scooby-Doo has lasted so long as a franchise because each series did a different, unique thing that showed us the essence of the characters in a different way, not by making the exact same series with the same basic plot for 50 years. We had three radical reworkings of Scooby back-to-back and only 1/3 of them was actually well-liked by the general public
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Post by elemage on Feb 22, 2020 15:05:32 GMT -5
I think this is where most people's frustration is stemming from, and rightfully so. It stifles the creative process and growth of a franchise if you never allow it to change even a single aspect. Scooby-Doo has lasted so long as a franchise because each series did a different, unique thing that showed us the essence of the characters in a different way, not by making the exact same series with the same basic plot for 50 years. We had three radical reworkings of Scooby back-to-back and only 1/3 of them was actually well-liked by the general public Get A Clue was a horrible premise from the get-go. Maybe if the entire cast had been included it'd have been different, but the 80's proved people don't care about Shaggy and Scooby by themselves. And Be Cool never had a chance after people saw the Regular Show-esque art style. Mystery Incorporated was lightning in a bottle, but that doesn't mean that they can't get another massive hit by once again retooling the formula. Case in point; instead of having Curse of the 13th Ghost be an incredibly lackluster ending to the TV show, they could've used it as the pilot for a sequel series! That moment where Velma is going to open the real Chest of Demons but decides not to since everybody else is freaking out would've been the perfect way to re-release all the ghosts, and then have it kick off a new series where Adult Flim-Flam joins the Gang and they have to recapture the Ghosts thanks to Velma. And the "What's a Scrappy?" line that was obviously a backhanded insult to the character could've been developed into a subplot throughout the series where it's revealed that Asmodeus removed almost everyone's memory of Scrappy for whatever reason (maybe they can only defeat him if all seven are together, along with Vincent?) and they have to rescue Scrappy while the writers redeem him. That alone would've been a ground-breaking premise because not only would the franchise be returning to the only show that was 100% supernatural, Velma would be the focus (having re-released the ghosts) instead of Shaggy or Scooby, and they would've brought back the two most hated characters in the franchise (Flim-Flam and Scrappy) and redeemed them, as well as continuing the trend of series-long arcs, following in the footsteps of the original 13 Ghosts and Mystery Inc. I mean, I'm not a Hollywood writer so I'm sure someone could take what I just wrote here and make it 20 times better, but you get the idea.
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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Feb 22, 2020 15:10:05 GMT -5
We had three radical reworkings of Scooby back-to-back and only 1/3 of them was actually well-liked by the general public That alone would've been a ground-breaking premise because not only would the franchise be returning to the only show that was 100% supernatural, Velma would be the focus (having re-released the ghosts) instead of Shaggy or Scooby, and they would've brought back the two most hated characters in the franchise (Flim-Flam and Scrappy) and redeemed them, as well as continuing the trend of series-long arcs, following in the footsteps of the original 13 Ghosts and Mystery Inc. I mean, I'm not a Hollywood writer so I'm sure someone could take what I just wrote here and make it 20 times better, but you get the idea. I wouldn't have minded a full-on remake of 13 Ghosts done with a similar tone to Mystery Incorporated. Maybe take notes from Stranger Things and have it set in the 80s with a bunch of 80s references.
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