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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Jan 29, 2020 10:09:10 GMT -5
I'm still under the impression Warner doesn't wanna touch the majority of at least the '84 episodes because of how badly H-B's primitive digital ink and paint work has aged. Is it true that the masters are in black and white?
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Post by wileyk209 on Jan 29, 2020 15:59:31 GMT -5
I'm still under the impression Warner doesn't wanna touch the majority of at least the '84 episodes because of how badly H-B's primitive digital ink and paint work has aged. That's possible. That computer system could only export to 320x240 resolution, which was fine for the 1980s but pretty small by today's standards. Its' limitations and primitiveness also really show with 1994's "Scooby-Doo in Arabian Nights", by which that time the computer system was over at Wang Film Productions in Taiwan. (Can anyone else imagine if "Animaniacs" actually used that computer system when animated at Wang?)
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Post by ruben MG on Jan 30, 2020 1:03:00 GMT -5
I'm still under the impression Warner doesn't wanna touch the majority of at least the '84 episodes because of how badly H-B's primitive digital ink and paint work has aged. That animation was not done with cels?
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Post by Old School Scooby Fan on Feb 7, 2020 7:14:27 GMT -5
I realize also that traditional cel animation by H-B was likely discontinued in 1984, in favor of digital ink. That could explain why H-B programs produced in the latter half of the 1980s, such as "Popeye and Son", "A Pup Named Scooby-Doo", and even the later seasons of "Smurfs", never got a DVD release as yet, though "Popeye and Son" did get released to Amazon for free viewing, oddly enough. Ruby-Spears likely followed suit in terms of digital ink animation by 1986, as I discovered the first season of the "Punky Brewster" cartoon appeared to be traditional cel animation, but it appeared they switched to digital ink by the second season, as the video quality was a lot better. And all of the animated Punky cartoons (except for "The Shoe Must Go On", due to usage of "Axel F" in the episode), did get released to DVD as bonus content. DIC Entertainment seemed to use digital ink and computers for their 1980s cartoons, particularly with "The Littles", since its Season 1 opening involved a rotating camera effect (not turning upside down, just to clarify), which you would never see on H-B cartoons even in the digital ink era. I am thinking DiC was likely ahead of the game when it comes to digital ink. Though I personally think "Inspector Gadget" got produced using cel animation. "Smurfs" had supposedly moved to digital ink in 1984, as the title cards all had a consistent background color scheme, and the font used in the titles (Cooper Black font, to be exact) were consistently blue, and red lettering in titles and an orange-y background were discontinued as of 1984. And you could tell that they moved to digital ink by that time by observing the video quality, which is much clearer than in the first three seasons. I don't know about "Pink Panther and Sons", I get the feeling it may have been produced using traditional cel animation, despite debuting in 1984, implying it may have been in development in 1983 or before, and maybe it was being considered for launch on NBC by 1983, but there was no room on the schedule to put it. And maybe the animators' strike of 1982 likely delayed the launch of the series, if it was being considered for launch in 1982. Oddly enough, there seemed to be no problems with some cartoon series produced in the latter half of the 1980s. A non H-B example of this is "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" - that did get released to DVD. Cel animation likely didn't prevail on that series, as I saw a shadow effect on April O'Neil's face, at least on one episode - this could imply it was created using digital ink. I'm still under the impression Warner doesn't wanna touch the majority of at least the '84 episodes because of how badly H-B's primitive digital ink and paint work has aged. "Snorks" was produced using digital ink, and did debut in 1984. And that series did get released to DVD. I am thinking it's more the case that Warner refuses to take any risks with releasing any series with Scrappy to DVD, considering that three DVDs with Scrappy involved did not sell well. I am thinking it has more to do with people's hatred for Scrappy. I don't hate Scrappy - maybe I'm in the minority.
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Post by wileyk209 on Feb 7, 2020 23:52:16 GMT -5
I realize also that traditional cel animation by H-B was likely discontinued in 1984, in favor of digital ink. That could explain why H-B programs produced in the latter half of the 1980s, such as "Popeye and Son", "A Pup Named Scooby-Doo", and even the later seasons of "Smurfs", never got a DVD release as yet, though "Popeye and Son" did get released to Amazon for free viewing, oddly enough. ... DIC Entertainment seemed to use digital ink and computers for their 1980s cartoons, particularly with "The Littles", since its Season 1 opening involved a rotating camera effect (not turning upside down, just to clarify), which you would never see on H-B cartoons even in the digital ink era. I am thinking DiC was likely ahead of the game when it comes to digital ink. Though I personally think "Inspector Gadget" got produced using cel animation. ... "Snorks" was produced using digital ink, and did debut in 1984. And that series did get released to DVD. I know that beginning in 1984, H-B actually still alternated between using traditional cels and digital coloring. "A Pup Named Scooby-Doo" DID have its' complete series released on DVD, and in that case, only the first season used the computer system, while subsequent seasons used hand-painted cels. I don't think "The Littles" had digital coloring; it was still hand-painted cels. But the first two seasons had the advantage of being animated at Tokyo Movie Shinsha, a Japanese studio known for VERY high-quality animation (they worked quite a bit with DiC in their early years, including the first season of "Inspector Gadget," and they also did a lot of work with Disney Television Animation in the mid-to-late 80s and Warner Bros. Animation in the 90s.) Of course, I doubt H-B could afford using Tokyo Movie Shinsha... With "The Snorks," the first, second and fourth seasons (1984, 1985 and 1988, respectively) used hand-painted cels, while the third season (1987) used the computer system (and then the "Come Along with the Snorks" intro first put into use that season used both cels and digital coloring in it, with the different clips used!)
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Post by Ark on Sept 20, 2020 20:08:09 GMT -5
I'm still under the impression Warner doesn't wanna touch the majority of at least the '84 episodes because of how badly H-B's primitive digital ink and paint work has aged. This would explain why even the digital releases (which have all been released on Boomerang) are very gritty. I suspect something even further: they've lost the ability to run the software to color the film and make higher quality masters. Also of relevance, in regards to a previous comment, is that A Halloween Hassle at Dracula's Castle WAS released on VHS. I have it.
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Post by Ark on Sept 20, 2020 20:08:43 GMT -5
I'm still under the impression Warner doesn't wanna touch the majority of at least the '84 episodes because of how badly H-B's primitive digital ink and paint work has aged. That's possible. That computer system could only export to 320x240 resolution, which was fine for the 1980s but pretty small by today's standards. Its' limitations and primitiveness also really show with 1994's "Scooby-Doo in Arabian Nights", by which that time the computer system was over at Wang Film Productions in Taiwan. (Can anyone else imagine if "Animaniacs" actually used that computer system when animated at Wang?) INTERESTING!!! YES. Makes sense.
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Post by ShaphneLegacy27 on Sept 21, 2020 15:24:58 GMT -5
WB should just take a break from new content and reanimate all the shows up to Pup into HD widescreen. Solves the problem for New Mysteries.
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Post by Ark on Sept 21, 2020 23:18:09 GMT -5
WB should just take a break from new content and reanimate all the shows up to Pup into HD widescreen. Solves the problem for New Mysteries. Well, right! If they have it in black and white, they could make it super nice. It's not like we don't have automated colorization software better than what they were using in the '80s, ha! Also, I'm realizing that the "Lazer Tag Academy" film was also probably colorized digitally. I've never seen a copy over 240p.
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Post by Chorake on Sept 23, 2020 2:47:39 GMT -5
WB should just take a break from new content and reanimate all the shows up to Pup into HD widescreen. Solves the problem for New Mysteries. Well, right! If they have it in black and white, they could make it super nice. It's not like we don't have automated colorization software better than what they were using in the '80s, ha! Also, I'm realizing that the "Lazer Tag Academy" film was also probably colorized digitally. I've never seen a copy over 240p. The "240p" generalization is grossly overexaggerated. The system actually output at analog 480i.
A lot of the problem actually lies with Warner adding disgusting aliasing and edge enhancement to the masters. Old untouched airings from Cartoon Network and the like look markedly sharper.
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Post by Ark on Sept 23, 2020 20:15:17 GMT -5
480i isn't anywhere near 480p, but you're right about the enhancements. Specifically, it looks like a bad Waifu2x filter. If they want to upscale, they should let the guy who does the Mighty Max Restoration Project take a stab at them. He's GOOD.
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Post by mattpricetime on Sept 24, 2020 8:43:25 GMT -5
While I don't want to interrupt this convo, I will say one thing I am now 100% sure of is the Turner set up some kind of exclusive window for stuff on the Boomerang app.
Two older series that were on the Boomerang service got taken down and then Warner Archive released them on dvd.
Most of the Boomerang originals aren't coming out to dvd on regular intervals, yet the stuff from the DC Universe service is, what's the only difference between the Boomerang one and the Dc one. No Turner involvement on the DC one.
I imagine the work on a lot of the shows on the Boomerang service not yet on DVD, are done. They just wanted it to have dibs on some material.
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Post by wileyk209 on Sept 26, 2020 15:19:05 GMT -5
While I don't want to interrupt this convo, I will say one thing I am now 100% sure of is the Turner set up some kind of exclusive window for stuff on the Boomerang app. Two older series that were on the Boomerang service got taken down and then Warner Archive released them on dvd. Most of the Boomerang originals aren't coming out to dvd on regular intervals, yet the stuff from the DC Universe service is, what's the only difference between the Boomerang one and the Dc one. No Turner involvement on the DC one. I imagine the work on a lot of the shows on the Boomerang service not yet on DVD, are done. They just wanted it to have dibs on some material. I think Warner might be phasing out the Boomerang service soon, now that they have HBO Max. They are already moving some of the DC Universe originals to HBO Max, and we can expect "Scooby-Doo and Guess Who?" and maybe a few other Boomerang originals to move to HBO Max as well; I'd assume they'd also gradually migrate the older shows from Boomerang to HBO Max as well. But currently HBO Max is mostly interested in showing high-definition stuff; this is why all the older Looney Tunes shorts on HBO Max are ones that got restored in high-definition (they recently remastered many older shorts for the service, even a couple of late 1960s Warner-Seven Arts-era cartoons!) whereas the Boomerang service has a mix of shorts that were restored in HD for DVD and Blu-Ray and older VHS-quality prints of cartoons yet to be restored. Of course, all Scooby-Doo shows and animated movies made since 2002 were produced in widescreen high-definition, so it'd be no problem for those, and the service also already has "Scooby-Doo, Where Are You?," "The Scooby-Doo Show," "Scooby-Doo and Scrappy-Doo" and "The New Scooby and Scrappy-Doo Show," because they've been remastered in high-definition. Which brings us to ANOTHER point! "The New Scooby and Scrappy-Doo Show" from 1983 has recently been remastered in high-definition, presumably for HBO Max (the Boomerang service still has standard-definition prints), so maybe that show or several episodes will soon see a decent DVD release!
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Post by Ark on Oct 4, 2020 12:36:13 GMT -5
oh wow, the scrappy show? that's great news. the third season of TSDS is in HD on the bluray set; this is exciting .
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Post by mattpricetime on Oct 8, 2020 23:46:48 GMT -5
Even if releases of new to DVD HB shows have been slow, work behind the scenes on the library as a whole has clearly been ongoing. Notice how faster now more of them are getting bluray releases these last two years.
The story we got in general was that several of Warner Archive's dvd releases took longer than expected because they were discovering several of the masters had problems. So it was then they decided to speed ahead the remastering on a lot of the shows even if it meant slowing down on the releases compared to like the previous decade, it looks like we are slowly seeing more of those results leak out piece by piece.
The digital ink and paint system also seems to have been a problem with the masters too. It doesn't seem like to held up as well as they had thought. Those series are likely to show those effects even with the best new masters.
I think we can single out two that must have problems by their absences. Touche Turtle is not on dvd but Wally Gator and Lippy and Hardy are. Buford and the Galloping Ghost is not on the Boomerang service, Yogi's Space Race and Galaxy Goof-Ups are. I think it's safe to assume both of them are probably held up by mastering issues.
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