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Post by mattpricetime on Dec 23, 2019 18:02:59 GMT -5
Well technically speaking that was what I meant. Lazzo was the old CN by a lot even if some of us (me included) don't like some his personal states, most of Cartoon Network and Adult Swim's fair scheduling was thanks to that man. He is old at this point so the idea he wanted to retire isn't that surprising rather than get a job 18 years late.
I'm not nitpicking every little thing as I was before (as i'm also rather busy) but there's a lot of experimental little things that I'd call evidence they haven't really finalized their plan for the networks as a whole yet. The lack of official announcements, the burning off of shows and most of CN's future originals being moved over to start off at HBO Max are all very strong signs though there thinking more "do we try to fix this or do we just move on from it".
The strong brands at this point don't really need the channel, as long as fans know where to watch them. But there are certain advantages and disadvantages that are probably going through their heads right now. But this new era will feature without CN's last president and Adult Swim's main architect. So calling it a real new era is rather appropriate.
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Post by mattpricetime on Aug 7, 2020 15:40:36 GMT -5
Re-upping this thread instead of making a new one, because well major alterations just broke today. A lot of those smaller organizational things I talked about in this thread are out the window and they are throwing all the channels, services and studios under just Warner Bros under Ann Sarnoff with various subgroups all now answering to her. The big elephant in the room is obviously this is what you would do if you are planning to merge some of these assets together. The covid situation no doubt caused major changes in what the plans were before this. I'm not as free in time as I was when I posted updates on every little thing, but if they are planning any major shakeups from this, they should start becoming clear soon.
EDIT:
I'm adding some quotes from Jason Kilar's letter sent out today and bolding some lines. Remember under the old management the Turner vs Warner Bros issues have long been held as a major problem from the animation side functioning as best as it could. So read these with that in mind, and let's see if the current organization lasts that long.
Note that as of right now Warner Bros Animation, Cartoon Network Studios, Williams Street are all under that division lead by Ascheim. So they counted as under Warner Bros already. HBO, TNT, etc weren't under WB yet. Crunchyroll Studios and Rooster Teeth's animation units were under the same unit they just broke up to form this new organization.
And remember AT&T is selling the CNN building. Now after you read that, you'd probably be skeptical too the company is going to have five independent animation studios by the end of this.
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Post by mattpricetime on Aug 7, 2020 22:03:28 GMT -5
Here are some more comments from Jason Kilar in an interview on Deadline.
For people who were curious if AT&T was going to close any of the studios, end any of the streaming services, end any channels, etc. This process is where most of those decisions will be made. The whole part about how there will be people who were in two different organizations now in one heavily implies some things are going to be merged in this process.
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Post by mattpricetime on Aug 10, 2020 23:34:29 GMT -5
It's looking like DC Universe is likely one that will be falling. Most of it's staff are on the first list of layoffs. No word on if similar things happened to Boomerang or Crunchyroll people.
Warner's established tv live action productions are merging into one with some subsidaries used for branding. The film equivalent is kind of already like that with how New Line Cinema and DC Films exist but are still just a part of WB.
Color me shocked if we don't get news of something similar in the animation side this week.
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Post by russm on Aug 11, 2020 1:50:17 GMT -5
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Post by mattpricetime on Aug 11, 2020 22:00:24 GMT -5
Interesting from the comics angle how it appears some are being told not to talk.
One thing I didn't make clear is that the other studios that are "technically" not merged yet are Studio T and HBO Films. But given the trend here, I think most everybody is expecting them to be merged into this new Warner Bros Television at some point in the merger.
Because if they don't, isn't that the opposite of streamlining? Here WB got rid of it's extras, but keep the Turner and HBo ones?? But given the helpful articles russm brought in talks of this may indeed be going down at those studios right now, they are just being told to keep quiet about it.
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Post by mattpricetime on Aug 12, 2020 20:19:54 GMT -5
News from today was that AT&T is interested in selling Crunchyroll over to Sony, which owns Funimation. Let me be clear that if such did happen I believe they'd still be licensing in anime for the channels and HBO Max. But the logic here is the same with the studios part where the message in general is "why do we need more than one?" Crunchyroll has the more sellable market than Boomerang and DC Universe. Sony doesn't seem to be that interested in the price. But the price is high given the idea is instead of just ending some debt let's try to make a profit off it. Though I wouldn't be surprised if there was some library arguments in such a deal (like how when Ted Turner sold back the MGM studio but kept the library) However unless something changes I could see all three being absorbed into HBO Max within the next couple years.
EDIT: Adding something that is bugging me.
Now if you remember, when AT&T moved CN and TCM under Warner Bros they created a new division that right now is under control of a guy named Tom Ascheim. Now before this CN has a president that was over all in charge of CN, Boomerang and Adult Swim. Adult Swim had it's own president that had certain autonomy but still answered to the CN president. TCM had it's own general manager.
In 2020, so far they appointed someone to be the new TCM General manager, someone who has been with TCM for years. They also appointed someone to be the president of Adult Swim. Someone who's been at CN since the Cohen days......why has no one been appointed in charge of CN?
Now we also know CN was ridiculously much farther along in production than in terms of actual airing. Meaning that CN might still be fulfilling orders put in place by the previous president that one is not needed right now. Remember OK KO was cancelled at three seasons when only one and half seasons had aired. If they were that far in advance who knows how bookmarked they were at the time Miller left.
Now that AT&T clearly is showing signs of consolidating things, the previous plan may be up in smoke. Ascheim's position was created before HBO, TBS, TNT and Trutv were going to be under WB control. And it is sounding like the channel group will have them all under it eventually. It might make sense to expect this section to get rearranged again along this journey.
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Post by mattpricetime on Aug 15, 2020 1:29:20 GMT -5
Hey look seems like several things I was predicting are coming to pass in the last day or two.
Looks like DC Universe's original content is moving to HBO Max, which is pretty much the sign it's going.
Also the head of HBO Films is leaving the studio and organization, which also is pretty much a sign it's going.
Lastly a Turner person who left in 2019 Marie Moore is returning as a communications person for Ascheim. While the reports are giving a lot of words let me summarize. That this would be a person who knows the Turner vs WB dispute but wasn't involved in the animated version of it. So she seems to be a perfect person to guide Ascheim. As her job description right now appears to be help CN/Boom/AS, TCM, CN Studios and WB Animation to communicate and get on the same page.....which as we all know is something looooooooooooooong overdue.
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Post by russm on Aug 18, 2020 11:42:25 GMT -5
Changes for DC as summarised by The Escapist's Big Picture
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Post by barneynedward on Aug 20, 2020 0:47:45 GMT -5
Re-upping this thread instead of making a new one, because well major alterations just broke today. A lot of those smaller organizational things I talked about in this thread are out the window and they are throwing all the channels, services and studios under just Warner Bros under Ann Sarnoff with various subgroups all now answering to her. The big elephant in the room is obviously this is what you would do if you are planning to merge some of these assets together. The covid situation no doubt caused major changes in what the plans were before this. I'm not as free in time as I was when I posted updates on every little thing, but if they are planning any major shakeups from this, they should start becoming clear soon.
EDIT:
I'm adding some quotes from Jason Kilar's letter sent out today and bolding some lines. Remember under the old management the Turner vs Warner Bros issues have long been held as a major problem from the animation side functioning as best as it could. So read these with that in mind, and let's see if the current organization lasts that long.
Note that as of right now Warner Bros Animation, Cartoon Network Studios, Williams Street are all under that division lead by Ascheim. So they counted as under Warner Bros already. HBO, TNT, etc weren't under WB yet. Crunchyroll Studios and Rooster Teeth's animation units were under the same unit they just broke up to form this new organization.
And remember AT&T is selling the CNN building. Now after you read that, you'd probably be skeptical too the company is going to have five independent animation studios by the end of this.
Wasn't Ann Sarnoff the same woman who ran cartoon Network as if it was just a tax write-off? Wasn't she the one who would cancel all of the better series in order to make room for ugly looking crap like the problem solverz and Clarence, IQ lowering dumpsterfires like Uncle Grandpa, and then non-stop Teen Titans go 22 hours a day? it's like she was trying to cause that channel to lose money.
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Post by mattpricetime on Aug 29, 2020 8:36:59 GMT -5
Re-upping this thread instead of making a new one, because well major alterations just broke today. A lot of those smaller organizational things I talked about in this thread are out the window and they are throwing all the channels, services and studios under just Warner Bros under Ann Sarnoff with various subgroups all now answering to her. The big elephant in the room is obviously this is what you would do if you are planning to merge some of these assets together. The covid situation no doubt caused major changes in what the plans were before this. I'm not as free in time as I was when I posted updates on every little thing, but if they are planning any major shakeups from this, they should start becoming clear soon.
EDIT:
I'm adding some quotes from Jason Kilar's letter sent out today and bolding some lines. Remember under the old management the Turner vs Warner Bros issues have long been held as a major problem from the animation side functioning as best as it could. So read these with that in mind, and let's see if the current organization lasts that long.
Note that as of right now Warner Bros Animation, Cartoon Network Studios, Williams Street are all under that division lead by Ascheim. So they counted as under Warner Bros already. HBO, TNT, etc weren't under WB yet. Crunchyroll Studios and Rooster Teeth's animation units were under the same unit they just broke up to form this new organization.
And remember AT&T is selling the CNN building. Now after you read that, you'd probably be skeptical too the company is going to have five independent animation studios by the end of this.
Wasn't Ann Sarnoff the same woman who ran cartoon Network as if it was just a tax write-off? Wasn't she the one who would cancel all of the better series in order to make room for ugly looking crap like the problem solverz and Clarence, IQ lowering dumpsterfires like Uncle Grandpa, and then non-stop Teen Titans go 22 hours a day? it's like she was trying to cause that channel to lose money.
Addressing this before I post the big news, no that was Christina Miller. And bluntly the Cartoon Network super fans owe her an apology. Given everything that has come out, the over spammed schedule was more than likely the only way Cartoon Network's originals got as much production as they did. While yes I have ragged that CN was so backlogged, at the same time the women made sure the studio itself and everyone working at it, got to continue making their cartoons. Maybe if she would have had some more guts to stand up to the WB vs Turner feud, it would be different. But if we are going to complain about her bad part, it is time she gets some cred for the thing she clearly fought the hardest for.
Ann Sarnoff is completely new to the WB/CN family. She worked in other companies but she has no baggage one way or another to the old rivalry. She is currently the head of Warner Bros entirely.
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Post by mattpricetime on Aug 29, 2020 8:44:20 GMT -5
Now for the big news, and that is it looks like Cartoon Network Studios is indeed going to be merged into Warner bros Animation. Which is the big thing i've been saying was looking likely to happen. This process has began with Sam Register, head of WB Animation, gaining control of Cartoon Network Studios. CN's head of programming Rob Scorcher is being sent to another part of the company. At this point given it looks like HBO Films and CN Studios are on the chopping block, Studio T and Williams St should be watched to see if they start such processes soon. But everyone for all the talk we had about the failed merger that ended in 2001, AT&T signalled with the announcement they finally intend to fix that. In this area every Hanna Barbera, Looney Tunes and DC fan should be happy. This is the change we need, and if they screw it up, Warner Bros will have no one to blame but themselves. AT&T is handing them the power to put up or shut up. Let's hope they use it for all they can.
EDIT: Beware the CN people will try to claim. "They aren't merging them they are staying separate". Yeah as of right now they are. But if they knew their own history they'd know this is how the process began last time. In 1996 the head of WBA was put in charge of both WBA and Hanna Barbera as separate studios. Then they started to merge together in the 96-01 period, until you know Kellner showed up. The writing is on the wall. It's happening to the live action studios, they are just easier to fold into one another than animation. Anyone denying this isn't connecting the dots.
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Post by vakanai on Sept 1, 2020 20:15:19 GMT -5
Now for the big news, and that is it looks like Cartoon Network Studios is indeed going to be merged into Warner bros Animation. Which is the big thing i've been saying was looking likely to happen. This process has began with Sam Register, head of WB Animation, gaining control of Cartoon Network Studios. CN's head of programming Rob Scorcher is being sent to another part of the company. At this point given it looks like HBO Films and CN Studios are on the chopping block, Studio T and Williams St should be watched to see if they start such processes soon. But everyone for all the talk we had about the failed merger that ended in 2001, AT&T signalled with the announcement they finally intend to fix that. In this area every Hanna Barbera, Looney Tunes and DC fan should be happy. This is the change we need, and if they screw it up, Warner Bros will have no one to blame but themselves. AT&T is handing them the power to put up or shut up. Let's hope they use it for all they can.
EDIT: Beware the CN people will try to claim. "They aren't merging them they are staying separate". Yeah as of right now they are. But if they knew their own history they'd know this is how the process began last time. In 1996 the head of WBA was put in charge of both WBA and Hanna Barbera as separate studios. Then they started to merge together in the 96-01 period, until you know Kellner showed up. The writing is on the wall. It's happening to the live action studios, they are just easier to fold into one another than animation. Anyone denying this isn't connecting the dots.
What does this mean for us animation fans? Will we notice a difference in the quality of cartoons or what kind of shows and movies come out?
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Post by mattpricetime on Sept 2, 2020 13:40:27 GMT -5
As of right now we have to see what changes come from the shift and more than likely eventual merger.
One thing I must stress is most of "problem" we describe are NOT mostly the fault of the actual people working on the shows. it's the behind the scenes politics and executive culture that has been the source of a lot of the pitfalls and glass ceilings we've seen.
At this point I think there's only one person left at the Network with any major power that got there post 2001. The major promotions have been long time network veterans. Or people completely new to the company. The concept of WB shows being treated less than CN originals should be gone with these changes.
Now as far as our day to day, these are the three big questions I have:
1. The major reason WB makes so many HB and DC movies go DTV was because they didn't have to deal with Turner over them. Now that this division is dead, will they still do as much DTV or will we see the relationship return to what it was back in the Zombie Island/Magic RIng days?
2. The spam schedule as CN and Boomerang is now pretty apparently how Miller kept the CN studio producing so much content and to a lesser extent the WB studio. Most of it never aired in a fair timeframe but at least it existed. Now if they wish to return the schedule back to be more diverse, they are going to have to cut back a bit on the number of shows the studios produce at one time. This does not mean like going from 20 to 5, or anything that drastic but if they go down that route, they are going to have to slow down a bit.
3. There's the question of how the co-ownership and probable eventual merger is going to go down internally. We as people who mostly talk about Scooby probably don't need to worry too much about this but there are clearly several ways this could go down, and will be made more apparent as time goes on. But luckily for us the guy who is making all the calls is someone who's produced a whole lot of Scooby in his tenure, so that isn't gonna change.
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Post by mattpricetime on Sept 7, 2020 21:02:22 GMT -5
News out today may or may not be connected to these moves, is that the long running Adult Swim show Venture Bros apparently got cancelled a few months ago. I say "may or may not be" simply because Adult Swim does have a history of bad cancellation fumbles. But obviously as much as we here at Scooby Addicts may not have to worry much in terms of this as we kind of expect a new Scooby once Guess Who wraps, but let's be real about this. The chances every single thing in the pipeline between WBA, CN Studios, Williams Street and Crunchyroll Studios survives this transition aren't great. Because like I said if they plan to merge them, that kind of stuff happens. If they want to add more diversity to the channel, they will have to trim the budget and rebuild the ad structure, etc. While I don't wish anybody to lose their show or their job in this process. This is the kind of price you pay to try and fix a corporate culture that has been allowed to drift apart for the last 19 years. If there are more stories like these to come, i'm sorry and may miss some of them too. And we in Scooby and Hanna Barbera in general aren't unfamiliar with these type happenings. It was these kind of changes when Turner bought Hanna Barbera and when Warner merged with Turner caused us to miss some things that could have been. But also with these come silver linings, the same gap was also what lead to Scooby Doo on Zombie Island and Tom and Jerry The Mansion Cat existing. So one step at a time.
EDIT: It looks like this was indeed connected to the moves, as Adult Swim itself apparently does still want more Venture Bros. Which means it wasn't cancelled because they wanted to get rid of it.
I'm going to make the sad prediction but I think Adult Swim's usual way of doing/funding things for some shows are getting punished for Cartoon Network itself allowed to get so far behind. Which if true totally sucks for them who did nothing wrong. But at least in this case the doors of communication are still open between the creators and execs.
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