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Post by mattpricetime on Feb 5, 2019 16:51:38 GMT -5
Oksy so we're leaning no on Bogel and Weerd, which is a bummer. But looks like at bare minimum Scrappy is getting referenced. The way that review mentions it I get the impression he's clearly not got a role in the main plot, but there are still several different ways the film could explain why he's not there. Given it also says there are lots of easter eggs for 13 Ghosts fans, I think it's probably not that negative. Which to be honest Scrappy getting a full redemption here was always a overly expectant longshot. But some of us were worried he may have been ignored completely, so one step at a time.
Scoobnick, what do you mean by "redemption"? As in turning him good from evil? Or just bringing him back in general? Because the live action was kind of non canon and the second option isn't what redemption means.
I'm not Scoobnick but it was my post lol. But what I meant by redemption was what some had hoped this film would be his return to the Scooby series but without any kind of dig at him. That didn't happen here, what we got was about half way. Flim Flam brings him up as where is he, Velma just says "What's a Scrappy?" No one else responds to it, and by the end of the movie I'd wager most viewers are going to seriously questioning whether Velma is in denial on several things.
It's less of a step forward than I would have liked, but I think Tim Sheridan wasn't the right writer for that job or WB isn't fully ready to try to reintroduce him yet. Although as I put in my previous post, when you greenlight a sequel to a series that ended on a cliff hanger and then it ends with an explanation that another character blatantly says "so you made it up" should leave the door open that some plot elements aren't off limits for the future.
But in all seriousness If people want better Scrappy in future projects, we should make sure WB people see us mentioning, this wasn't as much as we wanted.
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Post by scoobnick on Feb 5, 2019 16:51:40 GMT -5
it was also the early 70s. cartoons of the 40s especiall;y the war years are very problematic ( anti_Japanese propaganda, pepe le pew) today.
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Post by 24994j on Feb 5, 2019 18:20:29 GMT -5
It was...fine. It had a lot of the slapstick/cartoon physics and musical numbers like the series, but it did feel quite out of place here. I appreciate those nods, but they didn't quite work. The mentions before of Fred having fragile masculinity is a bit much. His insecurities lie in the changed character roles, stemming from their retirement from mystery-solving, and the previously-unknown side of Daphne, Shaggy, and even Scooby.
Ultimately, I have two major issues with the concept; Fred's revelation and supposed new interest revealed near the end was ridiculous, bordering on just plain stupid. The other serious flaw is the passage of time and Flim Flam's age progression. I just can't buy the idea that Flim Flam is of a similar age as the gang, having gone through an incredible, recent growth spurt, or that the Mystery Incorporated kids are still kids, short of 18. 'Zombie Island' was an established age progression of the gang, grown into their 20's or even 30's, and I'm curious to see if the writers are going to ignore all that for the sake of recent characterization.
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Post by ShaphneLegacy27 on Feb 5, 2019 18:45:41 GMT -5
And the gang were clearly past 18 by the time of the original 13 Ghosts.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2019 19:40:28 GMT -5
I think Everyone involved with MI ages on Peanuts time looping. They never quite get past 18 physically, but chronologically they do, perhaps this now applies to anyone who comes in contact with them like Vincent, Flim Flam and Googie? It would explain a lot especially if there's dimension hopping involved.
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Post by mattpricetime on Feb 5, 2019 19:51:01 GMT -5
I'll still be one of those people to point out there the Hanna Barbera faulty timestream theory saves a lot of those headaches. But after this movie I think we might see a little less of the continuity wars from at least a few directions.....hopefully.....possibly....ehh you know maybe i'll just go eat a scooby snack.
Oh also one minor bit of thinking on it some more, one change to our new backstory of the chest of demons that comes off rather harsh now was the werewolf town. Were Vincent and Mortifer (it is Mortifer right? Not just a weird accident of Mortimer?) even from that town? Or did those demons just curse the town out of spite for getting boxed again?
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Post by somebody-doo on Feb 5, 2019 19:54:57 GMT -5
I honestly didn't like it at all. I thought it was going to be kind of good at first, myself enjoying the first thirty minutes or so, but it all started to fall apart. Fred and Velma were so utterly useless in this movie. And then at the low point, when everybody was giving up and Fred didn't, I thought it was going to be cool but they totally killed it by making him turn into a cheerleader. It was stupid and ruined his character development in the film up to that point. And I know Velma's a skeptic, but that's not all of her character. Pretty much her only line was "ghosts aren't real."
I found a lot of it fairly unbelievable, like Flim Flam being so much older than he realistically should be. And the ending was one of the most obvious bad guys in years, and also a huge letdown having the 13th ghost be fake.
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Post by somebody-doo on Feb 5, 2019 19:56:15 GMT -5
I also felt like by the time our ghost opened the chest, the movie was starting to reach maybe the halfway point, and then it was just cut short with an uncreative and predictable ending.
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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Feb 5, 2019 20:13:19 GMT -5
I'll still be one of those people to point out there the Hanna Barbera faulty timestream theory saves a lot of those headaches. But after this movie I think we might see a little less of the continuity wars from at least a few directions.....hopefully.....possibly....ehh you know maybe i'll just go eat a scooby snack. Ugh you should see some of the posts on Scoobypedia right now. I haven't seen the movie yet and I'm disappointed by some of the retcons that have been spoiled but come on, people!
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Post by wileyk209 on Feb 5, 2019 20:31:47 GMT -5
This was actually a pretty cool movie; a fun throwback to the original "13 Ghosts of Scooby-Doo" series, albeit with a much bigger budget and done as less comic and more like a serious fantasy-horror film, and with Fred and Velma getting to participate and learn about it. Velma kind of annoyed me in this one, though. But it was fun seeing Daphne take charge. As always, Maurice LaMarche did such a great job imitating Vincent Price. I also immediately recognized Flim-Flam when he first appeared at Fred and Velma. He was pretty cool in this. I enjoyed his reunion with Daphne, Shaggy and Scooby. Velma asks "What's a Scrappy?" Obviously they're still too petrified to talk about him. *facepalms* And it's a shame they left out Bogel and Weerd. I guess Warner Bros. Animation figured they were too cartoony. A shame Asmodeus was just a guy in disguise, but he was pretty cool! I did get a kick out of Fred telling the villain to say the "meddling kids" line, and the gang all sighing happily when hearing it. The animation was really good, again even if they just ship the script and voice tracks off to Digital eMation in Korea (a.k.a. "the Family Guy Studio," as I call it.) I still enjoy the look of these direct-to-video movies, combining the darker look of the earlier titles with the classic Hanna-Barbera designs. A lot of nice little touches too, like the cold breaths visible when outside in the snow, the little specks of dust appearing in sun or moon beams, etc. I was really surprised to hear all of those classic Hanna-Barbera sound effects used, especially since in most newer Scooby-Doo productions they are scarcely used (maybe to try and keep the continuity with the original series?), even though we still have the classic Mystery Machine sounding like a very modern car made during this century. Though there were still quite a few newer "realistic" sound effects used, mainly those same stock ones we've been often hearing since the 90s (especially the " Dolby Digital Thunderclap" effect.) I also enjoyed that 80s-styled "Superstition" song that played halfway through the movie when Shaggy and Scooby were trying to retrieve the Chest of Demons from Asmodeus. Oh, and it looks like Warner Bros. still doesn't consider Scooby-Doo a Hanna-Barbera franchise anymore...
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Post by mattpricetime on Feb 5, 2019 20:41:45 GMT -5
I'll still be one of those people to point out there the Hanna Barbera faulty timestream theory saves a lot of those headaches. But after this movie I think we might see a little less of the continuity wars from at least a few directions.....hopefully.....possibly....ehh you know maybe i'll just go eat a scooby snack. Ugh you should see some of the posts on Scoobypedia right now. I haven't seen the movie yet and I'm disappointed by some of the retcons that have been spoiled but come on, people! I'm almost terrified to look but I hope you survive whatever war is erupting over there. Do they want to split things up into a lot of different timelines now?
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Post by mattpricetime on Feb 5, 2019 20:47:47 GMT -5
This was actually a pretty cool movie; a fun throwback to the original "13 Ghosts of Scooby-Doo" series, albeit with a much bigger budget and done as less comic and more like a serious fantasy-horror film, and with Fred and Velma getting to participate and learn about it. Velma kind of annoyed me in this one, though. But it was fun seeing Daphne take charge. As always, Maurice LaMarche did such a great job imitating Vincent Price. I also immediately recognized Flim-Flam when he first appeared at Fred and Velma. He was pretty cool in this. I enjoyed his reunion with Daphne, Shaggy and Scooby. Velma asks "What's a Scrappy?" Obviously they're still too petrified to talk about him. *facepalms* And it's a shame they left out Bogel and Weerd. I guess Warner Bros. Animation figured they were too cartoony. A shame Asmodeus was just a guy in disguise, but he was pretty cool! I did get a kick out of Fred telling the villain to say the "meddling kids" line, and the gang all sighing happily when hearing it. The animation was really good, again even if they just ship the script and voice tracks off to Digital eMation in Korea (a.k.a. "the Family Guy Studio," as I call it.) I still enjoy the look of these direct-to-video movies, combining the darker look of the earlier titles with the classic Hanna-Barbera designs. A lot of nice little touches too, like the cold breaths visible when outside in the snow, the little specks of dust appearing in sun or moon beams, etc. I was really surprised to hear all of those classic Hanna-Barbera sound effects used, especially since in most newer Scooby-Doo productions they are scarcely used (maybe to try and keep the continuity with the original series?), even though we still have the classic Mystery Machine sounding like a very modern car made during this century. Though there were still quite a few newer "realistic" sound effects used, mainly those same stock ones we've been often hearing since the 90s (especially the " Dolby Digital Thunderclap" effect.) I also enjoyed that 80s-styled "Superstition" song that played halfway through the movie when Shaggy and Scooby were trying to retrieve the Chest of Demons from Asmodeus. Oh, and it looks like Warner Bros. still doesn't consider Scooby-Doo a Hanna-Barbera franchise anymore...
Branding at WB right now is one thing I will blatantly criticize them over big time. I don't know who is actually in charge of those decisions but yeah some of them haven't made a lick of sense. Why don't Scooby movies have the new HB toons logo?
I honestly didn't think branding questioning could get any more bizarre then them rebranding the Volumes 2 and 3 of the Tom and Jerry spotlight collection into the Hanna Barbera Diamond Collection but not the first volume.....how does that make sense?
I will go on the record that I don't mind multiple versions of one property going at once and I don't mind things on my shelf not always matching. But WB if you are going to give us brands, logos and rules, are we asking too much that the ones you do make actually stick to what they're supposed to do? Seriously AT&T look into who ever has that job when you do your rearrangements.
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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Feb 5, 2019 22:11:54 GMT -5
Ugh you should see some of the posts on Scoobypedia right now. I haven't seen the movie yet and I'm disappointed by some of the retcons that have been spoiled but come on, people! I'm almost terrified to look but I hope you survive whatever war is erupting over there. Do they want to split things up into a lot of different timelines now? That would require too much effort on their part lol
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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Feb 5, 2019 22:42:21 GMT -5
It's less of a step forward than I would have liked, but I think Tim Sheridan wasn't the right writer for that job or WB isn't fully ready to try to reintroduce him yet. Although as I put in my previous post, when you greenlight a sequel to a series that ended on a cliff hanger and then it ends with an explanation that another character blatantly says "so you made it up" should leave the door open that some plot elements aren't off limits for the future. That's something I'm still not clear on. If Velma DID make up the Asmodeus story than why did we see his ghostly form over the cliff? I figure she was telling the truth about "revenge" being translated wrong and she was just "lying" about Asmodeus being real.
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Post by mattpricetime on Feb 5, 2019 22:57:53 GMT -5
I mean to me, I think it can be interpreted a couple of different ways. If the writer meant only one of these I couldn't tell just by watching it the first time.
A. Velma meant she didn't buy any of it was real period. It was all fake and stories. (Personally I don't think the viewer is supposed to side with Velma based on her pattern of actions throughout the whole movie and everyone else not siding with her there either)
B. She was right, Asmodeus repented and is a good soul who no longer looks demonic came back to say goodbye. So no need to box him.
C. She was wrong, he's still bad but he did have the guts to give them a quick thank you for getting his impersonator exposed and then he got out of there before anyone could think about boxing him.
D. She was wrong, he's still bad and he deliberately helped cause the avalanche to stop his imposter. Gave a little wink to Vincent and got out of there before anyone could think about boxing him.
E. Shaggy was right it just a trick of the cloud and we have no idea where that guy is.
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