Velma & Jennifer Cavilleri from "Love Story"?

[spike]

I've recently made one observation. Starting from the 1990s-2000s, Velma was increasingly portrayed as attractive (most notable with Linda Cardellini portraying her) and having romantic relationships; she also developed a sarcastic wit (especially in Mystery Incorporated). All of this is usually seen as a change from her original 1970s-80s "purely geek girl" image.

However, I've noticed that in the very first 1969 show, "Scooby-Doo Where are you?", her appearance was much closer to the prettier 1990s-2000s version (notice, for instance, the Hawaii scene), and her snarky sense of humor was also more prominent back then.

Moreover, December 1970 (just two month after the end of the first Scooby-Doo show) saw the release of the famous tearjerker movie "Love Story", and its female lead Jennifer Cavilleri (Ali Macgraw) was a bookish dark-haired girl with glasses and a sharp wit... just like Velma! (IMO, even their fashion sense was somewhat similar, with woolly jumpers and turtlenecks) I'm really curious whether the character of Velma was originally implied to have some sort of hidden depth in the romantic sense, and whether these similarities are just coincidences or not (judging by Love Story, this was a new and trendy romantic heroine type back then, and maybe the characters of Velma and Jennifer could even have some common origin?)

[jonathanmuddlemore]

I'm not sure about Love Story but Velma was modeled after Sheila Kuehl's portrayal of Zelda Gilroy on The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis. However, Zelda was WAY more boy-crazy and perky than Velma was for decades and there's not many similarities between the two beyond both being old-school Geek Girls. The irony of all this is that Sheila Kuehl has always been an open lesbian which derailed her career and led to the planned Zelda spinoff not being picked up. I personally believe that the Kuehl connection may have been the genesis of all those "Velma is a lesbian" jokes though I'm not sure how commonly known that connection was. 

[manbearpig]

Jan 9, 2019 12:00:10 GMT -5 spike said:

I've recently made one observation. Starting from the 1990s-2000s, Velma was increasingly portrayed as attractive (most notable with Linda Cardellini portraying her) and having romantic relationships; she also developed a sarcastic wit (especially in Mystery Incorporated). All of this is usually seen as a change from her original 1970s-80s "purely geek girl" image.

However, I've noticed that in the very first 1969 show, "Scooby-Doo Where are you?", her appearance was much closer to the prettier 1990s-2000s version (notice, for instance, the Hawaii scene), and her snarky sense of humor was also more prominent back then.

Because of her sarcasm and intelligence, Velma is a quite difficult character to write.  I think that 1969-1970 SDWAY creators had more ideas for Velma's character than the writers of later shows. Being the most interesting, after Shaggy and Scooby, member of the Gang, she's got more time on screen, hanging out with them more often than in later episodes and because of that, she also got better lines, humor and animation. There was even an idea of making her Shaggy's girlfriend, which was, as we already know, abandoned for 40 years until it came back in SDMI.
Later in the 70's, the creators were clearly running out of ideas for Velma (and the whole show by the way). In the New Movies she was either out of character (acting sometimes dumb or overly cowardly) or  overshadowed along with Fred and Daphne by Shaggy, Scooby and a guest star of the week. In the Scooby Doo Show she started to act like a kind of mystery-solving robot. She became that "purely geeky girl" - genius but boring.  Also the shows' animations started to downgrade, affecting her badly. All of that intensified in the first Scrappy Doo show just before cutting her from the next season.

But sticking to the subject of the thread I would say that Velma was intended to be a stereotypical unattractive geek girl from the beginning, as a counterbalance for just as stereotypical pretty face Daphne. The Hawaii scene was only one of the exceptions from that image.

In the 90's Velma was portrayed not even more attractive, but rather more cute, probably because of that japanese-made animation. She was also more kind-spirited than ever.
All changed in 2002 with the Scooby Doo movie, which was originally intended to be directed at teens and adults, so because of that, Velma's make-over and sharper wit were more than obvious. What New Scooby Doo? followed the movie's trail and also changed Velma's appearance. She became thinner and her clothes tighter, making her more attractive. Little too attractive for my taste, because she was for years a role model for girls who couldn't have as ideal body as, for example, Daphne and that was disturbed.

After 2010 everything became more balanced. Despite her snark being sometimes too sharp, Velma's appearance was toned down by getting a more classic look but she's not as overshadowed by Daphne as earlier anymore, being also as feminine as her (e.g in Camp Scare or Stage Fright, Frankencreepy was a ridiculous exception). Overall it's very positive that girls like Velma who don't fit in classic beauty canons are also appreciated nowadays.

[jonathanmuddlemore]

Jan 9, 2019 20:46:27 GMT -5 manbearpig said:

Jan 9, 2019 12:00:10 GMT -5 spike said:

I've recently made one observation. Starting from the 1990s-2000s, Velma was increasingly portrayed as attractive (most notable with Linda Cardellini portraying her) and having romantic relationships; she also developed a sarcastic wit (especially in Mystery Incorporated). All of this is usually seen as a change from her original 1970s-80s "purely geek girl" image.

However, I've noticed that in the very first 1969 show, "Scooby-Doo Where are you?", her appearance was much closer to the prettier 1990s-2000s version (notice, for instance, the Hawaii scene), and her snarky sense of humor was also more prominent back then.

All changed in 2002 with the Scooby Doo movie, which was originally intended to be directed at teens and adults, so because of that, Velma's make-over and sharper wit were more than obvious. What New Scooby Doo? followed the movie's trail and also changed Velma's appearance. She became thinner and her clothes tighter, making her more attractive. Little too attractive for my taste, because she was for years a role model for girls who couldn't have as ideal body as, for example, Daphne and that was disturbed.

After 2010 everything became more balanced. Despite her snark being sometimes too sharp, Velma's appearance was toned down by getting a more classic look but she's not as overshadowed by Daphne as earlier anymore, being also as feminine as her (e.g in Camp Scare or Stage Fright, Frankencreepy was a ridiculous exception). Overall it's very positive that girls like Velma who don't fit in classic beauty canons are also appreciated nowadays.

I would say Daria Morgendorffer is the biggest influence on post-90s Velma ESPECIALLY in the first live-action movie. If Cardellini put on the same performance but as a live-action Daria, it would be dead-on.