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Post by scoobyrogers on Feb 10, 2014 3:24:18 GMT -5
I'm not sure I understand why there's no Fred in these shows. Don't get me wrong, I think they did wonderfully with Flim Flam! Normally, though, a character isn't there because their actor isn't there. While Welkner wasn't there, that also would have meant Scooby couldn't have been there. They found Don Messick to replace Welkner for Scooby, though, so the show could still go on. Since Don Messick was able to do Scooby though, wouldn't he have been able to do Fred, too? After all, Frank Welkner did both. I really don't understand.
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Post by 24994j on Feb 10, 2014 13:21:12 GMT -5
There are several corrections to make on this one...
1. Welker did not voice Scooby before he took the role in 2002. Messick voiced the pooch from the beginning til the mid '90s.
2. Were you implying that Messick would voice Fred? It wouldn't happen. The three male leads (Messick, Welker and Casem) has been on the show since the beginning. They had become quite iconic in the roles, while the female leads had seen a few switches, making them more dispensable. The creators weren't about to dump one actor and have another pull double duty. They'd still have to be paid for the work, so eliminating the character was arguably the best plan to trim the budget. To reference my first point, having two of the primary characters voiced by the same actor is still a relatively recent method. And besides, Messick was already voicing Scrappy by the 80's, in addition to Scooby.
3. Fred was not just absent from '13 Ghosts', he had not been a regular cast member since like 1979-ish...the same goes for Velma. It's all but certain that the two, plus Daphne for a time, were phased out as a cost-cutting measure. The show's ratings had dropped, so Scrappy was added to breathe new life, but a few actors had to get cut, as well. Fred and Velma did come back for a few episodes in the early 1980's, but those were just special occasions. Once '13 Ghosts' rolled around, I doubt the production staff wanted to add back the characters lost, for they were the reason that cutbacks were made. By then, Daphne had developed her mystery-solving skills, and Scrappy had matured to take on a role as leader, thus proving the Velma and Fred characters (respectively) to be unnecessary.
Simply put, the show needed to tighten its belt, trim the fat and lose the dead weight. Over time, their roles were replaced, and wouldn't reemerge until the (first) top-to-bottom series reboot for 'A Pup Named Scooby-Doo'.
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Post by mattpricetime on Feb 24, 2014 18:08:21 GMT -5
One of the big factors in cutting was that the show's new format originally was going to seven minute shorts. Having to move around 6 regulars, plus the bad guy and whatever other gags and goons would have been too much. I believe "Heyyy it's the King" was the only short show HB did that tried too many characters in that short amount of time.
But i agree in that when Daphne came back as a stronger character and Scrappy matured into the more of the thinker, the gang of Scooby/Shaggy/Daphne/Scrappy had a pretty good organization. Not meaning that as a knock to Fred and Velma as there guest appeareances in the retool were good as well.
I assume though this show benefitted more from Flim Flam for the sillier shenanigans than it would have then-Fred or Velma. After all later on Fred was made to be sillier and might have been able to pull off sillier stuff, but then let's also not descend into what background "shipping arguments" get started over in this stuff.
Overall i think they made a good choice in this incarnation. It's nice to me to see most of the time a change in Scooby still can deliver fun even if sometimes certain characters aren't there.
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Post by scoobnick on Mar 7, 2014 18:12:55 GMT -5
13 ghosts was a one season show anyway, so the others not being in there for a season wasnt a big deal.
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Post by ahkyahnan on Mar 10, 2014 11:25:21 GMT -5
Interesting. I never knew this series was orginally going to use 7 minute shorts. Glad they didn't. I prefer regular length episodes.
Mark
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Post by 24994j on Mar 11, 2014 19:06:40 GMT -5
Interesting. I never knew this series was orginally going to use 7 minute shorts. Glad they didn't. I prefer regular length episodes. Mark I think the discussion has bled a little into the previous Scrappy series, which were produced as shorts. Maybe I'm wrong. |
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Post by mattpricetime on Mar 11, 2014 23:49:46 GMT -5
Yes that's what i meant. When they cut out the mystery they cut the gang down to three characters to work best for comedy.
When they brought back the mysteries in 11 minute segments it went back to 4, and sometimes 6 in full half hour episodes or 5.
This show had 6 but had much better use to deal with serious yet funny demons in adding a kid to pair off with Scrappy and a powerful warlock mentor than it would need brainy clue finder (Velma) and still then generic straight-man (Fred). However i'd say a bigger question would be had Fred have been able to get his comedic persona earlier...how would 13 ghosts have changed? Would we have no Flim Flam? And of course that could pose some preponderance on the underwriting that builds up on shows like this. But even though we know none of that happened as dumb comedic Fred wouldn't come to the next series.
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Post by scoobnick on Mar 12, 2014 23:27:11 GMT -5
Fred wouldnt have worked in a show that was based on comedy and slapstick.. he was then, and imo still is, the ' straight man' of the group.
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Post by 24994j on Mar 13, 2014 1:19:23 GMT -5
Fred wouldnt have worked in a show that was based on comedy and slapstick.. he was then, and imo still is, the ' straight man' of the group. Yeah, sometimes I miss no-nonsense, unsympathetic Fred. Still, I think they finally have a good personality down for him in the last couple movies. |
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Post by Sophia Peletier on Apr 4, 2014 14:42:22 GMT -5
Sorry but...Fred and Velma would've just ruined "The 13 Ghosts Of Scooby-Doo".
By this point in the series, the Shaphne relationship had already been set in stone and they worked wonders off of each other. It would've been completely unnecessary to include them as they would be completely irrelevant by this point. Daphne and Scrappy had taken the role of leaders and clue-finders who could still have fun and joke around, while Flim Flam and Vincent Van Ghoul were relevant to the overall plot. They would've just been extra baggage that brought down the show.
They were always the two less interesting characters anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2015 6:17:50 GMT -5
13 ghosts was a one season show anyway, so the others not being in there for a season wasnt a big deal. True. Even though I liked the show it flopped. |
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