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Shaphne
Nov 3, 2013 15:33:34 GMT -5
Post by mattpricetime on Nov 3, 2013 15:33:34 GMT -5
I like the pairing because i really do love the dynamic of the 80s shows with Scooby/Shaggy/Scrappy/Daphne and through 13 Ghosts. I always took it from the hints with the hotel room and the idea that the all the vehicles and the house in 13 Ghosts all seem to be Daphne's and the fact that when Scooby retires he goes to his parent's house, so that always made sense to me that Shaggy and the dogs lived at Daphne's house with her.
However while i say i'm in favor the pairing, i'm not that much in favor of it being a major storyline for the show itself. As really a reason i didn't like MI, is that all the added characterization and drama, is something i really don't care to want to see in Scooby Doo or cartoons in general. I don't mind if they add details to allow the characters to be read to be in a relationship (which is not alone to that, other HB shows did this too) but when the primary story should be having fun and solving mysteries, i really prefer the spotlight be on the fun.
Which is not to say i don't like that in entertainment, but there's also a reason i'm a fan of Scooby Doo and a reason i'm a fan of some soap operas. And those reasons don't really mix.
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Post by Sophia Peletier on Apr 4, 2014 0:44:16 GMT -5
I'm so glad Shaphne was canon in the original series. Hanna-Barbera really handled their relationship well. The two evolved as characters together over time, it was all just perfectly executed. They liked to be subtle, with light-hearted and meaningful humor. This played very well for Shaggy and Daphne. She became a mature leader over time and was still able to have fun and joke around with Shaggy. Up until about a year ago, I didn't "ship" any Scooby-Doo characters and only knew of Fraphne because of Warner Brothers and I hadn't seen the original shows in ages. I decided to re-watch the entire Scooby series after taking an interest in the changing voices over time, and I'm glad I did. For the longest time, I didn't see any of the characters as being in a relationship and didn't care, I just loved Scooby! But then I got to "No Thanks, Masked Manx", and I officially began shipping Shaphne, I didn't even know it was a thing and that there were other fans! After that, I began to see how their relationship evolved over time and they were no doubt together. They made a smart move pairing the two up, as their relationship was solidified and set in stone by the time of "The 13 Ghosts Of Scooby-Doo". The two just compliment each other so well and it really shows, even in the more recent incarnations. I hate Warner Brothers for not only ruining the Scooby franchise, but Shaphne as well. They need to stop forcing Fraphne on us and degrading our favorite characters.
The main reason I was able to tolerate Scrappy was because of Shaphne...now he doesn't bother me anymore. The Shaphne years were amazing and I wish we had gotten more of them together.
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Shaphne
Apr 5, 2014 17:11:46 GMT -5
Post by mattpricetime on Apr 5, 2014 17:11:46 GMT -5
Yay another pro-Shaggy and Daphne user.
Overall i get the feeling the staff at the WB side of things are probably more pages out of the 70s instead of the 80s, so it's the earlier pairing that gets their favor. And the CN influenced ones are just obviously more blunt in what they want, so i'm not really counting them much in the fan department. But that being said the movie line gave a mini plot point to Fred/Daphne and then went back to keeping the "maybe it is, maybe it isn't" in the next one, so should some 80s fans end up in the writing room in the future, things could change all the easier.
However i assuming there are already some, the real monsters adventure in Goblin King and Stage Fright using a bunch of lit references for a plot, are more akin to things Scooby did in the 80s in comparison to the 70s, but that being said most referencing seems to take us back to the 70s. (and including the 69 season in that grouping)
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Shaphne
Apr 5, 2014 19:51:45 GMT -5
Post by Sophia Peletier on Apr 5, 2014 19:51:45 GMT -5
I loved the relationship between Daphne and Shaggy because it was executed perfectly. You get to see them bond and evolve together throughout their time on the show. When they finally get together, it's subtle and not in-your-face every ten seconds like how Warner Brothers is doing the Fred and Daphne relationship. We didn't have to be shown on-screen that they were together, Hanna-Barbera let us know with their clever subtly. This, blended with HB's light-hearted humor, really furthered their relationship dynamic. The two were perfect for each other, and they still are! They still have more in common in the WB Scooby incarnations than Fred and Daphne will ever have.
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Post by scoobnick on Apr 6, 2014 10:28:39 GMT -5
mystery inc tried too hard on the relationship front, imo. the only pairings they didn;t try were fred-velma and shaggy-daphne. then again they didnt leave much to the imagination regarding velma and hot dog water either.
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Shaphne
Apr 6, 2014 18:45:40 GMT -5
Post by mattpricetime on Apr 6, 2014 18:45:40 GMT -5
That's one of the reasons i detested that incarnation. I prefer the subtle or side-plot approach. The teamwork trend is a hallmark to the HB style. Having your buddy/lover around for adventures just kind of was the thing for them to do.
Nowadays i think we're more up a creek in that while i think it's safe to say the people trying to continue on some of these franchises are fans, but just aren't that good at emulating the style. They can make an entertaining product on it's own merits but in comparison to the old it just comes out feeling more like a parody or a just too alien reboot. Of course this could change if new people enter the production that can do some better emulation.
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Shaphne
Apr 7, 2014 21:41:07 GMT -5
Post by Sophia Peletier on Apr 7, 2014 21:41:07 GMT -5
I don't think WB could pull off a Shaphne relationship properly, not like HB did anyway. The subtle approach and evolution over time worked wonders for the series. By the time of "The New Scooby And Scrappy Doo Show", Shaggy and Daphne were already perfect for each other, and their relationship only continued to strongly develop after that. WB would probably force it in our faces like they do with Fraphne. But, I don't think they'll quit with the terrible Fraphne relationship anytime soon, since they have been milking it to death since the series reboot "Zombie Island".
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Shaphne
Apr 10, 2014 23:10:04 GMT -5
Post by Sophia Peletier on Apr 10, 2014 23:10:04 GMT -5
I would loe for this pairing to be explored again someday in the future.
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Shaphne
Apr 11, 2014 19:25:36 GMT -5
Post by scoobnick on Apr 11, 2014 19:25:36 GMT -5
what is canon, though? each new interpretation is different, in my mind. i think be cool will ignore MI in terms of continuity, i think. but we'll have to see/
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Shaphne
Apr 12, 2014 3:45:14 GMT -5
Post by russm on Apr 12, 2014 3:45:14 GMT -5
I would agree, what is cannon is decided by the rights holder and the writers, the fan-base may have its opinion, strong opinions but wish-fulfilment does not make it cannon (it is a kind of logical fallacy of the 'Texas Sharp-Shooter' kind where you cherry pick the results you want and ignore/disregard the rest).
I've seen someone try to link all the Scooby Doo shows (including the animated movies - all of them) into one chronological time-line to try and prove a point about a paring without ever asking if the writers ever intended that the shows be viewed in that way - the logical fallacy of begging the question as they were attempting to construct a circular argument.
As Abraham Lincoln said* 'Be excellent to each other'
*I didn't do American history at school so I used the film 'Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure' for reference.
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Shaphne
Apr 12, 2014 10:42:26 GMT -5
Post by mattpricetime on Apr 12, 2014 10:42:26 GMT -5
Cannon and Hanna Barbera is a tricky subject. While the studio had no official set idea, their knack for crossovers and the general stance it appears through all their output and even from their sister studio and the start of their child studio is that sometimes continuity matters a lot and sometimes it didn't matter at all. All that being said given everything that occupies that world, if you ON PURPOSE want to look at it from a modern continuity standpoint the only logical conclusion is going to be faulty timestream. Which essentially excuses every continuity error there ever was or will be as the franchises move on.
That being said thought, MI seems to have gotten a lot wrong at the drawing board there if it was trying to say that the new timeline was the old timeline. Since a straight reboot wouldn't really be possible if you think about everything above. But then again MI seemed pretty evident on leaving out or depowering some of the characters who are examples of the reason there would be a faulty timeline in the first place. That kind of eliminates it from playing in the sandbox expectations set up as the norm rationale for HB studios.
The Scooby wiki seems to give Get a Clue the same doubt, but what's news and the films all seem to still play in the same general idea of what was previously established. Even if there are changes there of course were plenty of changes over time in the studio's own history.
Now souly on the scooby side there are a lot of constants in his own history and a lot of things that hold up (certainly a lot less to question than some of his colleagues to say the least). There's still some blunders to be found.
On the relationship side, i'd honestly argue the way the shows were written chances are good Fred/Daphne was the intention in the first two series but changed into Shaggy/Daphne and then back to Fred/Daphne with Shaggy getting his more not-lasting interests that would whether on purpose or not start in the Superstars 10.
A lot of that is interpretation based on how they had them interact and guessing what was in the background idea. Since romance was really no where to be found in the original's run. Most guesses are in the way they dance as partners in comparison to in the same scenes where Shaggy and Velma dancing was just used as gag for Scooby to be funny. And then over time those moments shrank and Daphne even began mentioning other guys like the band singer in the Mamba Wamba episode.
And by the time we get to the 80s, (as some people with far more interest than myself in the matter have shown in youtube videos) Shaggy and Daphne were drawn to have a lot more contact than any two human characters have had in a scooby franchise. Plus the use of sleeping arrangments, all to me imply there was a change made there.
But my whole point of showing all those examples is at the same time is to showcase how many signs of interpretation there are to be found within some of these shows. And in this case i would say HB had the general idea of Fred/Daphne and Shaggy/Daphne pairings. However i would also note that in the Superstars 10, the films and in what's new, shaggy's love interest went elsewhere and then they went back to Fred/Daphne starting officially in Zombie Island. (however the thing i'd be most interested in is if any scooby projects got junked in the turner buyout, since oddly enough in those videos i referenced earlier shaggy/daphne touching did seem to still be used quite a bit in Pup, even if the superstars 10 gave shaggy new actual stated love interests)
And interesting comparison though is that until much later in the franchise's history they never really had a firm idea. This is interesting in comparison to some of their similar shows that had what the relationship in the gang was blatantly stated (or in some what was not an actual pairing) or some that gave you hints in how the characters were made, but scooby for many years only offered subtle interpretation.
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Shaphne
Apr 12, 2014 13:18:30 GMT -5
Post by Sophia Peletier on Apr 12, 2014 13:18:30 GMT -5
All things WB can't be linked into one universe because of how different they are and how differently they portray the characters in each incarnation.
The HB cartoons were more stable, and each could be worked into the next, ending at "13 Ghosts". Fraphne was the original pairing, but they broke-off after "Scooby-Movies". This paved the way for the Shaggy/Daphne relationship. It wasn't the focus of the show, but the signs are there to let you know they were a couple. It's different with WB, they broke off the Shaphne pairing to bring back the Fred and Daphne pairing, for whatever strange reason and ignored everything that had been laid out by HB. Shaggy was traveling with Daphne and helping her out, not Fred, who had run off to become a mystery novelist. WB retconned thew original canon and bluntly let you know the relationship was there, for the most part, and took it further with Shelma and Fraphne in MI. That's something I don't agree with. I don't like it being a main focus of the show and causing drama between group members. Why do they have to create so much negativity between Velma, Fred, Daphne, Shaggy and Scooby? It worked in the originals because it didn't get in the way of the overall mysteries and plot. This is something WB can't seem to handle anymore, since they completely rob Daphne of any self-respect and make her a love-sick idiot. They also make Fred "Mr. No-Personality" who is just trap-obsessed. I would've been fine with Fraphne, had they continued in the subtle manner, but degrading these character into something so negative is just not what I want from what was once a fun, light-hearted series.
Of course, at this point we'll never receive any confirmation from HB. We're just left with what they established, since they have stated that they liked their cartoons being subtle and light-hearted.
Also, there's no possible way for MI to fit in with the original series canon, as it completely ignores the biggest factors and only slightly borrows small details. The same applies for every other WB Scooby creation.
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Shaphne
Apr 3, 2016 2:52:02 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by slicknickshady on Apr 3, 2016 2:52:02 GMT -5
I just think it would be complicated. We see Fred get Jealous all the time now over random guys. Same thing if say Fred got with Velma. All the times Daphne gets jealous over random girls. I don't like the thought of love triangles between the gang. That would just ruin friendships. I don't want to see Daphne mad at Velma for Velma being with Fred. I don't want to see Fred mad at Shaggy for Shaggy being with Daphne. It's too soap like. If that ever was gonna happen it would have been done in MI.
Then again in this universe they could do this and just have the others not care. Lol.
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Shaphne
Apr 4, 2016 10:46:48 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by ShaphneFan on Apr 4, 2016 10:46:48 GMT -5
I just think it would be complicated. We see Fred get Jealous all the time now over random guys. Same thing if say Fred got with Velma. All the times Daphne gets jealous over random girls. I don't like the thought of love triangles between the gang. That would just ruin friendships. I don't want to see Daphne mad at Velma for Velma being with Fred. I don't want to see Fred mad at Shaggy for Shaggy being with Daphne. It's too soap like. If that ever was gonna happen it would have been done in MI. Then again in this universe they could do this and just have the others not care. Lol. This would likely happen in MI, in other versions they wouldn't give a crap.
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Shaphne
Apr 5, 2016 22:13:40 GMT -5
Post by slicknickshady on Apr 5, 2016 22:13:40 GMT -5
I just think it would be complicated. We see Fred get Jealous all the time now over random guys. Same thing if say Fred got with Velma. All the times Daphne gets jealous over random girls. I don't like the thought of love triangles between the gang. That would just ruin friendships. I don't want to see Daphne mad at Velma for Velma being with Fred. I don't want to see Fred mad at Shaggy for Shaggy being with Daphne. It's too soap like. If that ever was gonna happen it would have been done in MI. Then again in this universe they could do this and just have the others not care. Lol. This would likely happen in MI, in other versions they wouldn't give a crap. You are most likely correct and thats why scooby is tough for me to watch sometimes. I don't mind if past shows and continuity is ignored. But if you are going to change things up don't just act like it never happened. You are exactly right though. They just would have Fred fine with it. Regardless if it makes sense or not. I guess mine is just wishful thinking. haha.
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