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Post by snesgamer83 on Sept 14, 2019 19:38:23 GMT -5
This was a screw up of Rian Johnson level proportions. It's the Last Jedi of the scoobyverse. It was too boring for the younger kids, too far removed for those of us who had the first zombie island engrained into their childhood. Who did they make it for? At first, I suspected blind people, but then again, not even dialogue is interesting enough for them to enjoy it. As I've gotten older, I've been more critical toward Scooby movies, but I've always told myself I'm just not viewing them as a kid anymore, and sometimes, after rewatching them some of the ones I have been harsh toward I came to actually like, like KISS. But for this, there simply is no forgiveness. The real mystery of this return to zombie island is who thought this was a good idea?! It's like if the sequel to Die Hard had been a movie about John McClain walking through Trump Tower barefoot and the marketing for it was "that one time Bruce Willis was in a skyscraper barefoot, so....sequel." The problem with both Curse and Return was that both of the movies should've been built from the ground up with 100% focus on older fans. ONE HUNDRED PERCENT. It was the only way they were gonna work properly. If anybody wanted their kids to watch and understand, they could always have them watch the old series/movie with them.
But I just had that sinking gut feeling before they were released that they'd divide the focus and end up making a subpar product for everybody.
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Post by snesgamer83 on Sept 14, 2019 19:44:41 GMT -5
My opinion is that Scooby-Doo needs a drastic shakeup in the writer's room, with some new people that truly care about the franchise and have some ideas which legitimately cater to the adults still interested in Scooby-Doo. Explore some new territory in the franchise, experiment a bit, and don't just go with safe nostalgia but not bother to put the work in. (This somewhat goes for Guess Who as well) I would genuinely like to see either completely unexplored territory in the Scooby franchise tested out, or maybe go back to some of the old stuff with some actual research done on the tone of the original work. I don't think it's fair to blame this on the writers. Tim Sheridan admitted in an interview about Curse of the 13th Ghost that WB gave him strict guidelines for the script; no Flim-Flam or Scrappy (he managed to get Flim in due to making him fit the story but couldn't find a way to rework Scrappy into it as well), the supernatural aspects had to be toned down as much as possible, and the ending had to be vague on the supernatural.And we know DC cancelled Scooby Apocalypse because the WB executive in charge of the Scooby-Doo license preferred the classic 70's formula and hated the reinterpretations DC had done with all the Hanna-Barbera properties. It doesn't shock me one bit that Return to Zombie Island was cut off at the knees, because this seems like a pattern from high up in WB, not the Scooby writers' room. Zombie Island is easily the most popular movie, with Mystery Inc. being the most popular series. The two blend fake monster mysteries with truly supernatural plots. But WB seems to prefer the 1969-1979 formula, simply out of nostalgia. And I guarantee that will bite them in the butt sooner or later, since there's a reason the franchise moved away from that format until 2005. Wow, that is beyond stupid. So basically everything that the movie needed in order to properly connect with the older audiences and make sense for the movie - was vetoed and forbidden just to satisfy the "every monster must be a masked villain" and anti-Scrappy crowds.
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Post by vakanai on Sept 14, 2019 19:54:15 GMT -5
I don't think it's fair to blame this on the writers. Tim Sheridan admitted in an interview about Curse of the 13th Ghost that WB gave him strict guidelines for the script; no Flim-Flam or Scrappy (he managed to get Flim in due to making him fit the story but couldn't find a way to rework Scrappy into it as well), the supernatural aspects had to be toned down as much as possible, and the ending had to be vague on the supernatural. And we know DC cancelled Scooby Apocalypse because the WB executive in charge of the Scooby-Doo license preferred the classic 70's formula and hated the reinterpretations DC had done with all the Hanna-Barbera properties. It doesn't shock me one bit that Return to Zombie Island was cut off at the knees, because this seems like a pattern from high up in WB, not the Scooby writers' room. Zombie Island is easily the most popular movie, with Mystery Inc. being the most popular series. The two blend fake monster mysteries with truly supernatural plots. But WB seems to prefer the 1969-1979 formula, simply out of nostalgia. And I guarantee that will bite them in the butt sooner or later, since there's a reason the franchise moved away from that format until 2005. I would agree partially, and I appreciate you making the distinction between the writer's room and the higher ups at WB (we saw that really play out with Be Cool, Scooby-Doo!). I think, in part, the blatant continuity errors were due to a lack of research, as even though Tim Sheridan was forced to adhere to strict guidelines regarding supernatural elements, I doubt someone came in and directly told him to include wrong details that weren't related to the supernatural aspect (i.e. the trip to Zombie Island being a "summer trip," Daphne's show just being a school project, or Vincent's castle just being an Air B'n'B.) The writers still could have done their research a little better on that aspect and still made it more true to the original, even if they had to abide by the guidelines of the WB higher ups about no Scrappy and supernatural elements. Not saying it's purely their fault, as you're right that the higher ups are probably a bigger issue, but that's just my opinion and I could very well be wrong. Actually I think that's still on the higher ups and not the writers. Remember, the gang is supposed to be teenagers again, whereas in the original Zombie Island they were young adults. Teens aren't going to have jobs like a tv show that Daphne had, so the writers had to change it if they still wanted to incorporate it somehow. And having the gang be teens again is probably something demanded from high up.
The Vincent's castle being a "scare" BnB was probably just for the convenience of plot. Considering these movies are still aimed at kids, even if they're trying to appeal to older fans via nostalgia, strict adherence to continuity probably comes second to plot.
Little apology for making multiple posts, but I just can't make multiqoutes in this forum.
Anyways, saw this film last night. Thought it was fun, if still kind of mediocre. Liked having Elvira make a guest appearance, but if you're going to get Elvira in your movie I'd wish she'd be a more important character and have a bit more screen time. The Reluctant Werewolf reference was fun to see. I actually kind of liked the running gag about Velma's Big Blog of Mysteries. The stunt Mystery Machine was an awesome temporary replacement. And it was neat that this film picked up on the continuity/plot of the last film with the MM being sold and the gang having quit mystery solving. Weird having the sheriff character show up on the island in the end though, how'd he even know they were there? And isn't he way out of his jurisdiction? Just who is this sheriff?
Overall I'm very pleased that this film left the events of the original Zombie Island intact and the paranormal bits remain (despite what Velma thinks), I liked the addition of the Cat People hiding Moonscar's pirate treasure, and I'm really curious about the one Cat Person in this film who wasn't a guy in a mask. Since all the Cat People in Zombie Island died and the other three in this film are fake, what's the story behind this monster?
So, overall an okay movie, and not nearly as bad as I had feared. Because I really thought they'd disprove the original film's supernatural elements somehow, so I'm glad that scenario did not come to pass.
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Post by vakanai on Sept 14, 2019 20:00:16 GMT -5
This was a screw up of Rian Johnson level proportions. It's the Last Jedi of the scoobyverse. It was too boring for the younger kids, too far removed for those of us who had the first zombie island engrained into their childhood. Who did they make it for? At first, I suspected blind people, but then again, not even dialogue is interesting enough for them to enjoy it. As I've gotten older, I've been more critical toward Scooby movies, but I've always told myself I'm just not viewing them as a kid anymore, and sometimes, after rewatching them some of the ones I have been harsh toward I came to actually like, like KISS. But for this, there simply is no forgiveness. The real mystery of this return to zombie island is who thought this was a good idea?! It's like if the sequel to Die Hard had been a movie about John McClain walking through Trump Tower barefoot and the marketing for it was "that one time Bruce Willis was in a skyscraper barefoot, so....sequel." The problem with both Curse and Return was that both of the movies should've been built from the ground up with 100% focus on older fans. ONE HUNDRED PERCENT. It was the only way they were gonna work properly. If anybody wanted their kids to watch and understand, they could always have them watch the old series/movie with them.
But I just had that sinking gut feeling before they were released that they'd divide the focus and end up making a subpar product for everybody.
Even for films aimed for older fans of older series/movies, I don't think a Scooby Doo film should ever be 100% focused on us (with maybe the exception of things like Scooby Apocalypse). That said I do think it's a little weird not to have this film be more faithful to the original - while younger fans might not have ever seen The 13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo outside of DVDs or possibly somewhere online maybe, Zombie Island still comes on TV from time to time on the Boomerang channel.
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Post by vakanai on Sept 14, 2019 20:03:55 GMT -5
This really felt like one of those early Disney 2000’s direct to video sequels, most of which had very little effort put into them. I wouldn’t be surprised if they went with the first idea that came to them for a sequel. I shouldn’t really be calling it a sequel as it’s really a stand alone film, down to the summarizing the plot of the first mid way through. :/ What was the point in that?! If it’s for new fans why make it a sequel at all? I could rant all day Which I shall do at some point, but I’m to tired atm. I liked how Scooby and Shaggy kept trying to get them to stop saying they know all that because they were there, but the rest of the gang ignored them and continued the exposition anyways.
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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Sept 14, 2019 20:05:41 GMT -5
I would agree partially, and I appreciate you making the distinction between the writer's room and the higher ups at WB (we saw that really play out with Be Cool, Scooby-Doo!). I think, in part, the blatant continuity errors were due to a lack of research, as even though Tim Sheridan was forced to adhere to strict guidelines regarding supernatural elements, I doubt someone came in and directly told him to include wrong details that weren't related to the supernatural aspect (i.e. the trip to Zombie Island being a "summer trip," Daphne's show just being a school project, or Vincent's castle just being an Air B'n'B.) The writers still could have done their research a little better on that aspect and still made it more true to the original, even if they had to abide by the guidelines of the WB higher ups about no Scrappy and supernatural elements. Not saying it's purely their fault, as you're right that the higher ups are probably a bigger issue, but that's just my opinion and I could very well be wrong. Weird having the sheriff character show up on the island in the end though, how'd he even know they were there? And isn't he way out of his jurisdiction? Just who is this sheriff?
Overall I'm very pleased that this film left the events of the original Zombie Island intact and the paranormal bits remain (despite what Velma thinks), I liked the addition of the Cat People hiding Moonscar's pirate treasure, and I'm really curious about the one Cat Person in this film who wasn't a guy in a mask. Since all the Cat People in Zombie Island died and the other three in this film are fake, what's the story behind this monster? A half-way decent writer would've made him the black cat creature and tied those two nonsensical plot points together
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Post by vakanai on Sept 14, 2019 20:16:03 GMT -5
Weird having the sheriff character show up on the island in the end though, how'd he even know they were there? And isn't he way out of his jurisdiction? Just who is this sheriff?
Overall I'm very pleased that this film left the events of the original Zombie Island intact and the paranormal bits remain (despite what Velma thinks), I liked the addition of the Cat People hiding Moonscar's pirate treasure, and I'm really curious about the one Cat Person in this film who wasn't a guy in a mask. Since all the Cat People in Zombie Island died and the other three in this film are fake, what's the story behind this monster? A half-way decent writer would've made him the black cat creature and tied those two nonsensical plot points together Be kind of weird to have the sheriff of their town (is this version of the gang still from Coolsville?) also randomly be a werecat guarding a Louisiana island, wouldn't it?
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Post by mattpricetime on Sept 15, 2019 1:27:59 GMT -5
The only idea i've come up with to top RW Dracula having the Mystery Machine is to have it been bought by s now adult Red Herring. I wanna see Fred's confrontation with that concept.
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Post by elemage on Sept 15, 2019 14:06:41 GMT -5
A half-way decent writer would've made him the black cat creature and tied those two nonsensical plot points together Be kind of weird to have the sheriff of their town (is this version of the gang still from Coolsville?) also randomly be a werecat guarding a Louisiana island, wouldn't it? Not if he was originally a Moonscar Cat Creature who was simply away from the island during the events of the movie, found out about Mystery Inc. and then decided to infiltrate their personal lives (by setting up shop in Coolsville as the Sheriff) and take them down. I agree with Muddlemore, a half-decent writer would've taken the already established continuity between Curse and Return and make it so that the Sheriff faked the mall/farmer case in order to break the kids' morale by making them think they'd failed, then bringing them back to Moonscar in order to kill them as revenge. Because otherwise, there is absolutely no point to this Sheriff character. This isn't "Murder, She Wrote", the Gang has never butted heads with police officers before (outside of Mystery Incorporated), why start establishing that as a thing 50 years into the franchise? Yes, it's realistic for police officers to dislike the Gang, but when has a show about a talking dog solving paranormal mysteries where 90% of them turn out to be men in masks ever been realistic?
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Post by barneynedward on Sept 15, 2019 14:19:33 GMT -5
Be kind of weird to have the sheriff of their town (is this version of the gang still from Coolsville?) also randomly be a werecat guarding a Louisiana island, wouldn't it? Not if he was originally a Moonscar Cat Creature who was simply away from the island during the events of the movie, found out about Mystery Inc. and then decided to infiltrate their personal lives (by setting up shop in Coolsville as the Sheriff) and take them down. I agree with Muddlemore, a half-decent writer would've taken the already established continuity between Curse and Return and make it so that the Sheriff faked the mall/farmer case in order to break the kids' morale by making them think they'd failed, then bringing them back to Moonscar in order to kill them as revenge. Because otherwise, there is absolutely no point to this Sheriff character. This isn't "Murder, She Wrote", the Gang has never butted heads with police officers before (outside of Mystery Incorporated), why start establishing that as a thing 50 years into the franchise? Yes, it's realistic for police officers to dislike the Gang, but when has a show about a talking dog solving paranormal mysteries where 90% of them turn out to be men in masks ever been realistic? He was probably just a newly elected sheriff, originally from a different town who wasn't used to having to deal with teenage amateur sleuths and couldn't understand why the sheriff he replaced tolerated a group of kids sticking their noses into police business. Also, consider how incompetent the police typically look in the series. They could spend years investigating a case and get nowhere, yet four teens and a dog manage to solve it overnight.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2019 17:40:11 GMT -5
I wonder if this new officer is supposed to be the WNSD equivalent of Bronson Stone...but even Stone wasn't so cold by the end of MI. Still though I can see why the police would be annoyed. Then again there's probably three reasons why the police never bothered to comment until now. 1. Shaggy's dad is on the force 2. Daphne and Shaggy are both rich...so maybe they just don't want Daphne convincing their parents to lose funding or quit? 3. Velma's sarcasm is more dangerous than a bullet.
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Post by manbearpig on Sept 16, 2019 15:35:29 GMT -5
The movie was pretty awful and pointless. The gang was the complete opposite of themselves. Fred was an annoying crybaby (just like in Frankencreepy), Daphne was bland (such a regression after the Curse of the 13th Ghost), Shaggy and Scooby were boring (and also annoying), and Velma, supposedly the voice of reason, was delusional and mentally unstable, completely out of character (she's too smart to act like that). But the worst thing the movie did to the gang was portraying them as a bunch of people without any interests besides solving mysteries. The scene in the white van where Velma, Fred, and Daphne had no common topics to talk about was beyond unsatisfying, like the Shaggy and Fred scene in Toy Scary Boo. The old SDWAY episodes, the previous movies like Camp Scare, Abracadabra Doo, Stage Fright, the Witch's Ghost and even the original Zombie Island showed them as a group of good friends, not just obsessive mystery-solvers. Please, no more sequels.
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Post by jonathanmuddlemore on Sept 16, 2019 16:14:02 GMT -5
Scooby-Doo and the Revenge of the Abominable Doctor Phibes
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Post by manbearpig on Sept 16, 2019 17:38:34 GMT -5
Scooby-Doo and the Revenge of the Abominable Doctor Phibes The events from Shaggy & Scooby Doo Get a Clue were just Shaggy's delusions after eating a moldy lasagne. Actually, Doctor Phibes was just a hospital doctor trying to do a gastric lavage. Agents 1 & 2 were nurses.
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Post by barneynedward on Sept 16, 2019 17:46:50 GMT -5
Scooby-Doo and the Revenge of the Abominable Doctor Phibes Get a Clue was so horrible, your idea would be an improvement. The events from Shaggy & Scooby Doo Get a Clue were just Shaggy's delusions after eating a moldy lasagne. Actually, Doctor Phibes was just a hospital doctor trying to do a gastric lavage. Agents 1 & 2 were nurses.
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