General Thread for Post-AT&T reorganizes and news

[mattpricetime]

We had a thread for the court proceedings and all but with that all gone let's do a refresher new thread to cover whatever happens from the new AT&T landscape.

I start this off with a newish development that Boomerang dropped the late night airings of the Cartoon Network originals now. So far they just allotted those spots to things that already air at other times. But that obviously isn't going to be the last note on this story.

As so far we know AT&T is clearly planning on dropping the TBS for comedy and TNT for drama boundaries but keeping both channels. We still have zero answers as how they view Cartoon Network/Boomerang/Adult Swim/Toonami as well as the physical studios of Warner Bros Animation/Cartoon Network Studios/Williams St/Ellation Studios. But the expectation going forward from almost everyone except the Cartoon Network fanzones is that "change is coming, it just may take awhile".

Besides that, Turner Classic Movies seems to have been moved over to being a sibling to the CW and doesn't appear to be considered to need much changing at least so far. Mind you TCM is the channel in the bunch most like the older Turner standards.

We'll know more once AT&T finalizes all the new management options, which clearly aren't done yet. But we can keep our eyes open to this stuff as those shows losing those spots may be a harbinger of things to come in more ways than one.

EDIT: I wondered if the whole Boomerang dropping CN shows was some kind of in-joke but apparently next week's CN schedule has them moving Samurai Jack to the 5:30AM spot on weekdays. Those of us old enough to remember the history of Cartoon Network may recall that as the traditional Captain Planet spot......I'm thinking this is deliberate for sure now. I wonder if they'll be more scheduling jokes like these to come until AT&T makes up their minds.

[mattpricetime]

News that had been happening a bit behind the news curtain at Trutv has been revealing. As most of all their executives have been given severance packages. If you recall from the previous topic there was discussion whether Trutv the channel would even still exist. It looks like the channel itself is probably going to survive but the idea of it having separate management and all the "this type" of programming are at an end. As the programming and the marketing people are staying around in the new order.


I still find it very unlikely the Animation divisions won't see some other similar approaches. But for us this is one of the best options we had. It's also funny since this began former Turner guy Kevin Kiley's biggest direction changes to TBS/TNT/Trutv really looks a lot like turning newer Turner into looking more like old Turner.

Going to interesting also if Animation is fully stuck to just the CN and Boomerang stations going forward if they'll have opportunities on the other channels often.

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EDIT:

So Otter Media is now being moved directly under Warner Bros as well. Otter Media in this case we in the animation field generally can refer to as the part of the company that had a lot of anime licensed to it for Crunchyroll and the fourth not yet well know animation studio, Ellation.

Like them moving Cartoon Network, Boomerang and Turner Classic Movies under Warner Bros we can probably expect there is going to be at the very least a new alignment and at the very most some consolidation. I kind of expect the direct fate (no matter how large or small) of the animation side of the company is probably coming in a press release in the future.

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EDIT EDIT:

An the in-jokes just keep rolling. Final Space an animated show that was on TBS and had reruns on Adult Swim is now officially being moved over to just being on Adult Swim. Again if you're old enough, this is a clear mimicking of how Cartoon Planet used to be on TBS before they moved it over to late nights on Cartoon Network for keeps.

Not sure if animation is going to be more sidelined from TBS/TNT/Trutv going forward as after all TBS still has a new animated show somewhere along in production but the news that is being moved is of course a possibility.

[mattpricetime]

While news for us specifically is still slow, it is not stopping at all for the live action side. There has been another merger as a former HBO guy is now in charge of the entire HBO/TBS/TNT/Trutv side of marketing, with the old Turner guy shown the door.

Again I repeat, if they are doing this stuff to the other channels there is no way the animation side is not going to receive similar treatment down the road. And i'd say the fact Warner Bros Animation and Williams Street people don't seem too worried while the creator of one of Cartoon Network's biggest originals isn't sure if his show is getting a movie or not is telling.

Plenty creative-wise will be safe, but all signs keep pointing to this reshuffle. Our side just isn't in the limelight yet for leaks and press releases. Everything we've seen so far appears to be them pressing forward with things already on the docket. There's going to be changeover at some point but they probably don't want a period with nothing new at all either. So I wouldn't be surprised if there's some fuzziness about it when it does happen.

[ruben MG]

Thank you very much for all the information

[mattpricetime]

Little news still sneaking out that is easy to miss. But a 20 year veteran for the websites at Cartoon Network apparently is another one who got shown the door but luckily for him he got offered a new job at another company that he seems happy with so good for him.

Cartoon Network is also still going forward with what no doubt was pre-planned panels at the Annecy Animation Festival. Most of which feature talent working on shows that haven't gotten their fair shot yet. But interesting though that WB Animation is going with them there to talk about DC Super Hero Girls. Like I said days of CN doing things without some Warner input are probably gone.

And while I am the guy researching tv without a working tv apparently some more scheduling throwbacks have gone down or are going down. I think some lesser seen shorts have randomly popped on Boomerang and Adult Swim is putting some of it's older originals back on in the 4 am hour next week. If this all is true, I'd add these to that list of little changes that are hints of things to come. Since you know those were things the older CN used to do.

[SpiderScooby]

With rumors of DC Universe shutting down, I wonder if Boomerang will be next? It makes sense to absorb them into the Warner streaming service. I'm not too jazzed about the supposed $17 price though.

[mattpricetime]

I've been following that part too but i'm not sure how that is going to turn out. Since originally we heard that all the solo services were still going to be offered but now it looks like some of them might not have enough to stand on their own. The DC one was basically a sampler to put stuff that there wasn't room on the CW and cartoons Turner didn't want. Now that both of those problems are probably dead as what the CW doesn't want may get space on HBO/TBS/TNT/Trutv and there's no more Turner management to stay. So maybe that service could afford to go.

Boomerang however they are using as a library system and that's stealing more dvd buys than cable viewing at this point. I have zero idea how much bigger/smaller Boomerang is doing versus DC. But obviously we need more info.

In other news the women who used to be head of Turner's marketing just got reshuffled to a new job under the former WB head of marketing. Remember how I said if push comes to shove Warner culture would be put over Turner culture....that's what that prediction looks like with someone's job on the line.

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EDIT/Disclaimer:

My local Walmart did a remodel and a lot of departments have been very badly stocked and understaffed. I'm going to post this as best I can from what I personally have seen but it is legit possible they are more that my store just didn't bother to stock.

So to my surprise new dvd sets for Adventure Time the Last Seasons, Powerpuff Girls Season 1 and Ed, Edd n Eddy Season 1 emerged on the shelf at Walmart. The new packaging has one purpose in mind, scrubbing off all the Turner references. And by the way while we're calling it Waner Media, the new 2019 crawl on the back calls it Time Warner Media still.

I picked up the Powerpuff Girls set as I never picked it up or the complete series sets when they first came out. I had a suspision and upon opening it I was proved correct. These aren't new discs they are repackages of the same 2007 discs. While WB may be putting some of these back in stores to undo the Turner references, it looks like they didn't rate high enough to manufacture new discs (like Hanna Barbera and the Amblin/WB shows did for their re-releases)

Some of them may go down to the Warner Archive soon but even then we know getting a store re-release doesn't mean you won't also get an archive releases. Ask Top Cat and Wacky Races.

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EDIT:

Let me just say that looking into the Cartoon Network Studios side of this is a mess. I tend to avoid certain online communities but I do try to give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to looking for news but like today that respect is pretty low. As in some cases i'm getting contradictory statements on things that can't both be true.

I think Gumball is completely over now and was before the court ruling. CN just didn't air the end until now. The creator uses past tense and isn't sure he'll get a chance to make a movie to follow up on his cliffhanger. So I don't think new Gumball is going to be with us in the new organization.

OK KO is a mess. We've got some people saying without a doubt there's a season 3 still to air. Yet there seems to be very little to back that up. The same TCM site that gave us the Scooby and Tom and Jerry leaks gave them the name of OK KO's end of Season 2 special and the name of something that sounds like it could be a series finale. Whether there's more episodes between the two isn't certain.

There is also talk the Powerpuff Girls reboot is over after the episode that airs this Sunday. Again i'm not sure if that is true either. As I did see an article that the Powerpuff girls are getting a kids meal toy slot soon. Seems weird to do with a show you just burned off, doesn't it?

I would say it looks solid some continuation of Steven Universe and We Bare Bears will continue in the changeover period, but given all the above i'm not sure I should trust some other sources.

Also let's add that that Wikipedia land finally sourced where they learned of a Dorothy and the Wizard Season 3. It's the Q2 Warner Media statement. So this order was not new and Dorothy is still likely done. It just has an extra season they still need to air.

So I stand by that Scooby Doo and Guess Who Season 2 and the Hanna Barbera shorts that the Animation Guild guy says exist are the HB buffer stuff for the changeover. I wouldn't be surprised if behind the scenes right now at Warner Bros Animation they know what the future production slate is going to be. They just aren't telling anyone yet.

[mattpricetime]

Warner Bros has a new CEO, and it is Ann Sarnoff, currently president of the BBC America Studios. And as expected she used the word "cross-pollination" in some of her only talks about plans so far.

Now that WB has a new person in charge on board, now things should get rolling a bit faster again. Although Scooby Doo and Guess WHo airing on Cartoon Network is obviously an expected sign of what is likely at this point to happen to the animation channels.

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EDIT:

Following up on my post in the Guess Who thread, Toonami is also having some changes that seem to be coming on from high. Interesting though this is now the second Adult Swim person to tease us that the schedule is going to have plenty of changes this year.

It is also notable some screenscapped the Cartoon Network airing at 7:30pm had a coming up next banner with the name of the 8:00pm Adult Swim show. The barriers seem to be weakening already.

I wouldn't expect any major alterations though until AT&T makes a formal announcement on the fate of the Animation Studios or their "Warner Media Day" happens with no such news indicating they are shaking them up. Whichever comes first mind you.

But I remind you AT&T made Time Warner lease back a big building they didn't think they needed. AT&T made CNN sell a building in the UK and relocate people to the other buildings. AT&T thought TBS/TNT/Trutv having some separate but the same offices as over spending.....so who really thinks AT&T is totally fine with four different animations studios in four different buildings with four different managements?

[mattpricetime]

On the Anime side of things it was announced Crunchyroll (the anime streaming service owned under Otter Media) and VizMedia (a anime company that has distribution deals with Warner Bros) are now in a partnership for home media releases.

For those keeping score at home, this is a animation consolidation similar to what has been happening at the live-action side of the studio. So yes it is happening still, even if some Cartoon Network junkies want to pretend otherwise.

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EDIT:

Going further, one of Rooster Teeth's animated shows that was originally apart of it's own service is now going to be heading to Cartoon Network in the Toonami section. This seems to be yet another hint that in the end the channel is probably getting put back together and the different parts (however many there are or aren't by the end of this) are all going to be contributing to it.

Adult Swim made some more "official" announcements of things that weren't exactly unknown beforehand. So Adult Swim isn't excluded in having some things in production to burn off by the looks. It just seems Cartoon Network itself was worse off than Boomerang and Adult Swim.

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EDIT EDIT:

Very loooong article out a little back ago in regards to Disney and Warner wanting to rearrange a content deal going forward. I'm sure people who's money is affected by this would be able to give a much better understanding of the situation than I could (and most people reading this thread probably won't care anyway)

But the gist of why it is important here is that Warner is having these discussions because they want to be able to move shows and properties around the different mediums without having renegotiation. Why? Because they want diversity and synergy. And we all know the current animation breakdown at Turner didn't really do that too well. So once again this makes total sense in the direction we've been expecting them to go.

[mattpricetime]

WarnerMedia's streaming service as a whole finally has a name and it is "HBO Max". They announced a few things that are going to be on it, but there's obviously still a loooooooooot to be officially announced, especially how many of the previous standalone services are going to coexist with it or be folded completly into it. (I expect everything on the individuals will also be on HBO Max eventually if they go that route)

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EDIT:

Another day, another Turner executive out the door. This time it was someone in the Ad department. Rumor mill suggests someone from Turner International or somebody new might get the equivalent to what she had been tasked with.

it is getting pretty clear management wise a lot of the old Turner is considered expendable. It also leaves some ominous ambiguity when it gets to the other sides of the equation. But time should tell.

EDIT:

Not only did that lady go, two of her staff went with her. So not a good time to be a Turner person. (Although some are probably getting nice severance packages)

[mattpricetime]

This is only part new, but that Adult Swim podcast is a gold mine for getting older staffers to give some history from the early days.

They had one of the research team Jeff Grant on and he tip-toed around part of some things but he also spilled some interesting bits from Cartoon Network's past. When Adult Swim was originally being thought of was back in late 2000 that was the period where Cartoon Network was competitive in all of cable and before Jamie Kellner got promoted. Originally they wanted to call it Parental Block and the marketing document makes it sound like they wanted to keep their primetime success (back when it was a mix of new and old) running into latenight and this block was that goal.

One majorly telling thing, this block was aimed for April 2001. That didn't happen. Adult Swim was we know it didn't air until September. And not until Betty Cohen had left the network. It's really obvious now that something happened between Cohen and Kellner back then that postponed Adult Swim's rollout and probably some of its direction as by the time it did, Cartoon Network wasn't still competitive in all of cable.

He also spilled a dandy of nugget that is something us older CN viewers have known for a long time. According to the Nielsen ratings, yes they've always known that a chunk of Adult Swim's viewers are under 18. He actually details that they used a sleep study to get Nielsen to give them the write off to be considered their own network so they can get around the American broadcast age laws better. He also revealed in the old days the night ads were just extended space already bought by the day time ads. By promoting a new block at night they had the chance to actually sell more spots. This was something GAK actually hinted at in a Toonzone post many many years ago about how ad space at night was different in the early 2000s to the 90s but never got into in detail. This also justifies why Adult Swim tends to watch the ratings far more then it's CN parent does. They know they're on a slippery slope and CN still has the ability to take spots (and thus ad revenue) away from them on a whim.

As far as in present times, several of his comments make me more certain a lot of Adult Swim and Toonami's recent fluctuations are probably them tinkering with how to keep their ad status while trying to balance the channel back out again. (Yes some things are staying in late night period) A lot of standards have altered since the old days to be considered. He also coyly just teased there's more changes coming down the pike with what Warner Media has planned, but naturally as a Turner employee who still has a job, he's not giving specifics.

EDIT:

Yep Cartoon Network pressers now just revealed the lid on yet another show they had in production and known to exist from before the court ruling and that two more seasons exist of two shows currently on the air......planning wise this is a nightmare. Good thing AT&T are taking their time with HBO Max.

[mattpricetime]

AT&T has settled the leadership for HBO Max this week. Kevin Reilly is in charge as he is right now also in charge of TBS, TNT and Trutv (but interestingly not HBO yet) with Bob Greenblatt as his oversight. This will be different from the Turner era because while there is still a chain of command these people are actually going to talk to one another and synergize.

I think the implication is that if Kiley also gets HBO, then you might be CN, Adult Swim, Boomerang and all the related animation streamers all get put under one person who then answers to the head of Warner Bros Ann Sarnoff in the same way Reilly answers to Greenblatt. And based the original stories AT&T put out after the court ruling it probably won't be CN's last president Christina Miller (as if they wanted it to be her they would have said so instead of making sure the news that leaked was that she was being looked at for a new job in the administration especially when news they wanted known about Reilly was pretty much the exact opposite approach) but could be Mike Lazzo, someone from WB or someone wholly new.

And we won't get any big news until they had cleaned up CN's current slate of things to air, which is anyone's guess how much longer until it's on par with Boomerang and Adult Swim.

[mattpricetime]

I've been on a long sabbatical from here and this thread, but long story short the rearranges are all still going on. But I would say in all my lengthy posts, I was totally right that HBO Max was going to be more reminiscent to the old Turner in it's approach which all plans point that it is.

CN's president is leaving the whole company now instead of just being reshuffled, which is saying something as well.

Those HB shorts we learned about also now is clearly known as Jellystone for HBO Max.

As far as the bigger picture goes, i'm reluctant to say it out loud because I know it will cause the CN super fans to get in a tizzy but I think it is also time everyone admits opinion of CN inside Turner and now AT&T just isn't as high as someone of us would have liked to pretend it was. I've been following along this stuff for months and it is the only scenario all the pieces make sense in.

But as a friendly remember, the last time this company tried to fix animation studios, the process started in 1995 and was ended as it was in 2001. So yes this could still take more time. It's neither a good thing or bad thing really that the process is slow. The brands that were doing fine will still do fine. The fate of the channels themselves that is in debate.

[mattpricetime]

Okay this one is a serious sign this really is a new era. Adult Swim aired a bump last night saying Mike Lazzo has retired. If there was anyone who could have been put in charge symbolically it was him. While not to spare him from criticism from some of this own choices Lazzo was one of the few original CN people still around.

If CN gets a retool it really is going to be a new era or you know the idea of a CN isn't no longer seen as top priority. Some here may to be too young but there was a time some of CN's programming also aired on TBS and TNT. However this shakes out it is going to be interesting but as far as Scooby goes, the end result is still going to be better than what we had before, AT&T is slowly shredding all the pieces of the culture that helped get us into this mess.

[Deleted]

That is good. Also I'm sure this is old news by now but Miller was finally shown the door at CN. Now if they would do that with DiDio at DC. As for Cartoon Network... maybe the next president will be somebody who worked on the golden era and wants to bring it back somehow.