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Post by Sophia Peletier on Apr 20, 2014 19:05:47 GMT -5
I always thought he was a match for Velma's brains in the original series. Clearly that is not the case nowadays and it isn't helping make him a more likeable character. Comic-relief is fine, but removing any brains a character had for the sake of it will not end up good, MI Fred is a good example of this.
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Post by mattpricetime on Apr 20, 2014 19:24:06 GMT -5
To me though Fred before was so much limited as a character when he was just a straight man. He's the leader and sometimes clue finder. And that was mostly it. A Pup gave him a new treatment but also replaced his more one note basic leadership with a gag. And this kinda stuck except we change up what the gag is.
As in Pup it was more silly conspiracies, then in the movies now he thinks everything is too predictable, then in what's new we see it more about his language blunders, and now in terms of throwing some take that at MI it seems to be traps. All of these making everyone else think he's silly.
Both two very different ways to approach the character, but all in all there's still something nice about ole Freddy Jones. I feel like maybe silly Fred has grown on me more as time goes on, but i wouldn't mind them poking fun at this in a feature, where maybe he tries to act like the old straight man and not be silly? That could be an interesting change for a movie.
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Post by Sophia Peletier on Apr 20, 2014 19:47:25 GMT -5
They can keep him comedic AND smart while being in the "leader" role, kind of like Daphne in "13 Ghosts". Making him obsessed with traps and having no personality besides that was a bit too far.
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Post by scoobnick on Apr 20, 2014 20:28:12 GMT -5
then frankly hb should start producing scooby stuff again, as WB isnt doing the gang justice.
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Post by Jinkies on Apr 20, 2014 20:37:55 GMT -5
Both members of HB have passed on as of 2005 I believe (may they rip) , it's a name-only company as of now. It was then passed down to WB to continue production. (If any of my facts are wrong I'm very sorry)
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Post by mattpricetime on Apr 20, 2014 21:52:26 GMT -5
It became in name only following Hanna's death. Technically it became a altered entity at the Turner buyout, which also gave birth to the studio within a studio that is now Cartoon Network Studios and it's somewhat offshoot in Adult Swim. This whole mess is really confusing if you don't study company stuff like this.
It's also useful to know that despite WB owning a lot of brands, a lot of it's properties are divided amongst libraries themselves. This creates even more confusion as to why certain things are considered property of a certain brand even if they technically weren't fully responsible.
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Post by wileyk209 on Apr 21, 2014 22:02:26 GMT -5
I never really liked the kooky dimwitted version of Fred when he was on "What's New, Scooby-Doo" and many of the made-for-video movies. Other people would like him a lot, saying stuff like "Oh, he's finally got a personality!" and stuff like that. In fact, it was a lot like what they did to Lola Bunny on "The Looney Tunes Show," how they also dumbed her down as well (but they also made her talk a lot, and often talk REALLY fast to the point of being hard to understand.) What next; Warner dumbs down Betty Rubble?
Though, this ditzy Fred WAS funny on "A Pup Named Scooby-Doo," but maybe because he was younger there.
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Post by Sophia Peletier on Apr 21, 2014 22:26:03 GMT -5
I never really liked the kooky dimwitted version of Fred when he was on "What's New, Scooby-Doo" and many of the made-for-video movies. Other people would like him a lot, saying stuff like "Oh, he's finally got a personality!" and stuff like that. In fact, it was a lot like what they did to Lola Bunny on "The Looney Tunes Show," how they also dumbed her down as well (but they also made her talk a lot, and often talk REALLY fast to the point of being hard to understand.) What next; Warner dumbs down Betty Rubble? Though, this ditzy Fred WAS funny on "A Pup Named Scooby-Doo," but maybe because he was younger there. Given that it was based on their innocent younger years, it makes sense that Fred would be more ditzy. The change in Mystery Incorporated was pretty jarring. It become quite annoying after a while.
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Post by russm on Apr 22, 2014 15:58:35 GMT -5
THe SD:MI one had, issues, but he came through in the end despite his dysfunctional upbringing. I tend to prefer the WNSD or the DTV animated movie versions, the early one was just a bit too perfect at times.
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Post by Jinkies on Apr 22, 2014 16:07:31 GMT -5
I never really liked the kooky dimwitted version of Fred when he was on "What's New, Scooby-Doo" and many of the made-for-video movies. Other people would like him a lot, saying stuff like "Oh, he's finally got a personality!" and stuff like that. In fact, it was a lot like what they did to Lola Bunny on "The Looney Tunes Show," how they also dumbed her down as well (but they also made her talk a lot, and often talk REALLY fast to the point of being hard to understand.) What next; Warner dumbs down Betty Rubble? Though, this ditzy Fred WAS funny on "A Pup Named Scooby-Doo," but maybe because he was younger there. Agreed. They put him through too much of a changed on sdmi. Don't get me wrong , a little change is good, it's just when you overdo it that it's bad. Also you can change for worse or better. Dimwitted Fred was acceptable on apnsd , because they're kids what do you expect? Prodigies?
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Post by Jinkies on Apr 23, 2014 0:39:44 GMT -5
I always thought he was a match for Velma's brains in the original series. Clearly that is not the case nowadays and it isn't helping make him a more likeable character. Comic-relief is fine, but removing any brains a character had for the sake of it will not end up good, MI Fred is a good example of this. Agreed. In atla and lok , bolin and sokka were both used as comic - relief , but they still had some sense. They are obviously no classic fred , but at least they still have it.
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sadie
Red Herring
Posts: 67
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Post by sadie on Apr 23, 2014 7:26:20 GMT -5
This is going to be long but bare with me. I feel the problem with Fred isn't that he's too smart or too dumb I feel the problem with Fred is his lack of other traits to balance the smart/dumb thing with. Classic Fred was so one dimensional he was practically cardboard, pup Fred was dopey but he was a kid so it worked, cyber chase and the like he was super serious and mystery incorporated he was the opposite. Unfortunately classic Fred really didn't give anyone anything to work with.
Velma was smart and smart people have a stereotype, Daphne was the pretty one and Shag and Scoob were goofy comic relief everyone had a stereotype and stereotypes (though bad in real life) give people material to expand on and rules to break. Every new incarnation puts a new spin on the characters they may have different interests or slightly different mannerisms but at their core they are the same stereotype they were all those years ago Daphne at her base will always be the pretty one, Velma will be smart and Shaggy and Scooby will be hungry fraidy cats but Fred? he's been shown to not be the best at sports (not a jock) He's not smart like Velma, girls don't flock to him (minus Daphne, so he's not a male model) all he had was traps and being level headed (and Daphne and Velma take that trait depending on the series)
Using the personality type they have stayed true to from the beginning you could write pages about the other characters what they would like, what they do in their spare time, fears, favourite foods family backgrounds because original Velma, Daphne, Shaggy and Scooby actually HAD a personality. Not Fred. People all over the world can see themselves in these characters, they can pick favourites they usually pick the one they have the most in common with but seriously who picks dull old Fred? Freds redeeming feature is he's not a constant, from the start of every new show Fred is a blank slate with an ascot and the writers will never win. Every new series is a homage to the first one, they stick to the mould and Fred remains the least favourite and most forgettable. Break the mould and people get up in arms about him being too (insert character trait here)and too different from the dullard everyone's used to.
The mystery incorporated Fred gets a lot of flack, say what you will but giving Fred so much personality actually worked for them in a way. He was annoying as a character (they all were at times, him especially) but he had so many lines that were just fantastic. A lot of the lines in that show were fantastic but the point that boring old Fred actually had some of them was great, a step in the right direction for sure.
All in all I think they still have some work to do as far as finding a good personality for fred goes I don't like dumb Fred or smart Fred, I think they need a middle ground there. What they need to do is get Fred other defining features, get him hobbies that aren't traps or something. He needs a serious personality transplant, make him relateable and who knows? maybe Fred will get a fanbase that puts him at the top of the list.
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Post by Sophia Peletier on Apr 23, 2014 13:17:26 GMT -5
That was very well said, sadie. I guess we'll have to wait and see what they do for the character in "Be Cool".
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aroc
Black Knight
Posts: 3
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Post by aroc on May 15, 2014 0:10:51 GMT -5
You have all missed why Fred's character has changed over the years. Look at all the tv programs, commercials and movies before the 70's and 80's. Many had a strong male characters.....Starting in the 70's we started seeing a reversal with more and more strong female characters with a male being somewhat goofy, or dimwited. Nowadays almost all commercials with a comic tint to them have the woman as the good looking, smart one and the male as the dumb even slightly overweight one. Sitcoms are the same way....King of Queens is a good example. Movies aren't that much different. When is the last time you saw a horror movie where the lone survivor was a male. I for one can't think of one. At any rate Fred's character simply changed to best follow the trends of Hollywood. I for one don't care about how the male is portrayed today...I do have a problem with changing a character to simply appease the feminist backlash that has infiltrated our entertainment industry.
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Post by loonyscribe on Sept 6, 2014 7:34:21 GMT -5
SDMI Fred doesn't just have a "personality" or is "dimwitted". He's the most developed, fleshed-out version of Fred in years. Indeed, he was one-dimensional in his early days and throughout the years, like most of the gang, so I doubt anyone could or can ever connect with him. Call me insane, but I can visualize SDMI Fred as a human being (ok, minus the borderline comic element).
In fact, SDMI is the first version of the series since the two live-action movies that treats all of the characters with a good amount of seriousness, which is something I love about SDMI. So, I go with "dimwitted Fred", if that's what he's callee.
"Zombie Island" and "Witch's Ghost" Fred was solid. "Pup" Fred was obnoxious. I never really cared about "WNSD" Fred at all. The DTV Fred (Abracadabra-Doo and on) is something of an extension to the "Zombie Island" Fred so he's acceptable too.
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